Pivotal Coaching
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Kelly: [0:05:00] Scott and Hayley, welcome to The Ready State Podcast.

Scott Hopson: [0:05:03] Thank you for having us.

Hayley Hollander: [0:05:04] Yes. Excited to be here.

Juliet: [0:05:07] Scott, what are you doing right now because you’re coming in live from a hotel. Just tell us a little bit about why you’re traveling.

Scott Hopson: [0:05:13] Oh, oh, oh, I love it. Surprisingly to everyone, including myself and Hails, the tennis men’s team I joined in the pandemic, we got our division, we won state, and this idiot is now playing sectionals in Indianapolis. We’ve got a shot at going to nationals. Who knew?

Juliet: [0:05:31] And so you’re telling me you’ve never, ever played tennis, you pick up tennis during the pandemic, and now you have a shot at going nationals? Am I getting that right?

Scott Hopson: [0:05:40] Almost. I’ve played. I’ve never competed, been on a team, or kind of been coached in that way.

Kelly: [0:05:45] Also never played. 

Scott Hopson: [0:05:50] Exactly. Exactly. And it was really my ego because the better half on the screen, her team wins a lot. And so I was like this is my turn. This is my turn. 

Kelly: [0:06:00] That is a perfect segue into so much that I want to get in with you all. I stalk you all on the internet a lot and watch how you move and how you teach and how you practice. And actually, you do what you say people should do, which is not always the truth with coaches. Do you think, because we’ll get into what Pivotal is and how you think and why I think you are such an extraordinary dyad of teachers, but has that prepared you somewhat to become and stay athletic past 40?

Juliet: [0:06:32] And become the tennis superstar that you now are?

Kelly: [0:06:34] I mean it’s kind of bananas, right? You’ve been practicing for this without practicing for this. Can you talk to me about that a little bit?

Scott Hopson: [0:06:41] Do you want to take that one first, Hails?

Hayley Hollander: [0:06:43] Well, I’m just like flattered. I got a huge compliment there saying that I move well and you stalk me on social. I definitely feel like being a mover myself has really carried over into what I can now do as a 40-year-old female playing competitive tennis. You know, I’m out there on the court five days a week for at least two hours minimum. You know, my volume is really high, and I don’t get injured, I feel amazing. And so by practicing what you preach, it really does give you that longevity in sport.

Juliet: [0:07:21] For those of you who don’t stalk you on the internet and watch your amazing movement, can you tell everybody what Pivotal Coaching is and what you guys do?

Scott Hopson: [0:07:31] Yeah, wonderful. It’s really simple for us. We’re a global development company empowering human potential. And every one of those words really means something to us because on one day we’re in our athletic clubs coaching ourselves, one on one, group, or teams, but we also coach technical tactical teams — soccer, rugby, et cetera. Or we could be coaching the coaches, which is “education.” Or we could be doing volunteer work in the community for children at risk, adults and programs of recovery from trauma and addiction. We consider that coaching. And then finally, we run our global education company. So we travel the world upgrading as many lives as possible through education. So it’s interesting when you say what do we do. Depends on the day of the week and the hat we’re wearing. But ultimately, if there’s a human being in front of us, individual or entire organizations, it’s about empowering human potential. That’s why we exist.

Kelly: [0:08:29] Hail, would you add anything to that?

Hayley Hollander: [0:08:31] No, I think he covered it pretty well. 

Kelly: [0:08:36] So let me give you… One of the reasons we’re talking to this couple today, we have a lot in common, we’re friends, I’m a fan. But we met at EXOS at their internal conversation. It was a train the trainers, all of their coaches were there, and it was sort of an internal development weekend. It was one of the first times they’d done that. And I had the chance of watching you all present. And inside with sort of didactic, laying out a high-level view of your principles and how you organize and think about and structure your thinking. And then we went outside, and I actually did the stuff, which I never do because I’m always just watching and participating and-

Juliet: [0:09:18] What’s he’s not saying is he’s like, I’m way too cool to do this stuff like most people.

Kelly: [0:09:22] I hate organized fun. I hate organized fun. It’s like my negative. But I was so taken by your approach and how you taught and it made such intuitive sense. But the whole time, the couple hours that I was with you, I was in that realm, I felt like it was just confirmation bias for me the whole time. I was like, oh, I’m at home, I know these people, they’ve been split off from my soul. And one of the reasons I wanted to have this talk was that with Juliet I was saying, hey, I’d love to have people on that I feel like are the tenth man, which was a reference from this Brad Pitt movie World War Z where the Israelis ended up understanding the zombie threat was coming because the tenth man was the person who looked at all the other things that potentially the group of 10 had missed. It was the obligation of the tenth man to say are we doing this right, are we being objective, are we understanding what’s going on. And the sort of information that you brought and the way you were thinking was really intuitive and vital in my understanding of how the world works. But I felt like it really is different than how other people are processing a formative teaching model, a movement model. And that was why you are honestly the first guest in our tenth person sort of iteration we’re talking to coaches about this.

Juliet: [0:10:38] Could I just add some sub questions to that? I’m not sure if-

Kelly: [0:10:41] There was no question. I just wanted to set the-

Juliet: [0:10:39] There was actually not a question, but when you’re answering whatever question Kelly has, could you let everybody know what EXOS is, what you were actually presenting, so people can sort of get some color there? And what was your actual question?

Kelly: [0:10:54] No question. 

Scott Hopson: [0:10:55] It was a statement and I’m going to interpret it through the medium of dance.

Juliet: [0:11:00] Yes. Thank you. 

Scott Hopson: [0:11:03] EXOS, obviously formerly Athlete’s Performance, is one of the world leaders in high level gym and performance, from military, technical, tactical sport, Olympic, collegiate, high school. And so Kelly and ourselves, it was their inaugural event, and they brought in all the top coaches, physiotherapists, and leaders from around the world to be upgraded by our education, which we were one and Kelly was one. And what we were doing that day, I did two things from what I remember. One was introducing them to our principle and philosophy of our movement model. And in that day, I just went after the big rocks. I remember, Kelly. It was the foot and ankle, hip and pelvis, thoracic spine and shoulder. And I just said, all right, let’s give you a taste of how we view these big rocks in the body. 

And then the second one was around really our passion is inside the human body is a human being, right? So the art of coaching is to connect in significant and meaningful ways to the human being because they’re driving the bus. So that day was like connecting what we now call the technical skills of a coach versus the human skills of the coach. Each of them have a plethora. But that’s what we delivered that day, was the two bookends of, yeah, you’ve got the movement, technical, but there’s a human being, and until you understand that they’re the ones driving the bus, it’s very hard to upgrade movement. So I think that’s… Hopefully that answered the question. That’s what we were doing at that event, 2017 I think now, mate. Wow. Yeah, 2017.

Kelly: [0:12:30] Yeah, I’m like 31 years old now already.

Juliet: [0:12:32] Yeah, well, first of all, you did a great job of answering a statement that had no question connected to it. So I mean I already have to give you props to that.

Kelly: [0:12:39] Ouch. 

Juliet: [0:12:39] That was awesome. And I think that the reason it feels like it was yesterday, that was because that was the last time anyone really went anywhere.

Kelly: [0:12:46] Almost.

Juliet: [0:12:46] To a conference. So it could have been yesterday or three years ago or four years ago. 

Kelly: [0:12:52] Let me ask you too, your associations with The Gray Institute, you’re master coaches. You teach… I follow you. I’m like, oh, they’re in China, oh, they’re in Brazil. You go all over the world helping these gigantic sports institutions, countries, governing bodies kind of wrap their head around holistic human development around movement. How did that come to be with the two of you who are really equally capable and confident coaches? Because it’s sort of unfair. Like for me and Juliet, Juliet is the brains and the operations. She can just run this whole thing. And then I just do my little stretching videos on the side. But the two of you I feel like are really a double header and it’s really not quite fair. I just want a little bit more. I just want you to coach a little bit more, that’s all I’m saying, Juliet. Tell us how you got to that. How does Pivotal come with you two ending up in that position?

Hayley Hollander: [0:13:44] Well, I mean equally, both Scott and I have combined over 40 years in the industry. But separately, we have our own individual 20 plus years of experience in the industry. And those paths met one day in San Diego when I was attending a mentorship that he was teaching. That content inspired me so much that I decided I wanted to work for the company that he was teaching for. And so at first he was my boss.

Scott Hopson: [0:14:14] Oh, how things have changed.

Kelly: [0:14:18] That’s funny because Juliet has always been my boss. 

Hayley Hollander: [0:14:22] But now I’m his boss. So the roles changed over. But in that interim before I moved to Chicago for the love of my life, Mr. Scott Hopson, we had our own individual education careers. And when I moved to Chicago, we both spent all of our career upgrading clubs and operations. And we were at a place in that time when we could either find another job, or we looked at each other and we said, you know what, why don’t we take what we love so much, which is coaching and educating, and what people come to us for, which is connecting the dots and empowering potential, and create a company that gives that to the world because that’s what the world is asking for. So in short, that’s kind of how we came to be Pivotal. 

Juliet: [0:15:17] And just some business logistics because I love this stuff, but when did you actually start the company and how have you grown over the years? Is it still the two of you, do you guys have a huge staff? Sort of what does the actual business of Pivotal Coaching look like?

Scott Hopson: [0:15:31] In 2017, and a little caveat to everything that Hayley just nailed is I was coming home from work as the national director of Midtown Athletic Clubs, Hayley was overseeing two of our biggest, most successful clubs. And I just had one of those kind of emergent moments where I said it’s time for a change. And you don’t even know what the change is. You’re like I’m just going to go home and tell her it’s time to quit our jobs. And I did. And FYI, I already did. I forgot to tell you that part. And honestly, on that drive home, I called four or five of those big names. I called them up, the Gary Grays and other big people and said, what would you say if I told you that Hayley and I was available to do these three things, only these three things. And they were the things we knew we’re gifted at, have a relentless passion for, and we wanted to give it back to the world. And I had everyone call me back within two hours, and a week later I was on a plane to China for four weeks. It was like that synchronic moment. Like it was one of those. Thus the name Pivotal. It kind of represented our pivotal moment to transform ourselves, right? So that’s kind of how it came to fruition.

Juliet: [0:16:43] I love that story because it is always really interesting to see and hear how people kind of go from like a more traditional career to thinking I need to be doing my own thing and what’s behind that. So you didn’t actually answer my question, but you answered an awesome question, and something I’m super interested in. But I’m just wondering how have you guys grown as a company? Is it just the two of you? Do you guys have a big staff that’s supporting what you’re doing? What’s been sort of like the business trajectory at Pivotal?

Scott Hopson: [0:17:08] Our growth between 2017 and 2019 was like triple, quadruple to the point where literally the week of everything shutting down, February 28, 2020, Bank of America said you are the next ticket for us, we’re going to invest in you because what you’ve done in two short years, we need to be a part of. And then pandemic hit and they stopped calling. The trajectory was, it was huge. Now we actually decided we’re going to work with everybody but not for anybody ever again. And so we actually have decided having operated major companies and managed thousands of people, it’s still just the two of us and that’s how we’re going to keep it. What we have grown is distributors and partners. What we’re not going to do in the short term is have people work for us. We really don’t want to continue with that model. Not short term anyway. What would you say, Hails?

Hayley Hollander: [0:18:03] No, I think that especially for me, a lot of my role now is kind of what you see in the public, the social media and the marketing side, on top of what I deliver in terms of live education. So I would like our company to grow and we were at the cusp just before the pandemic. And I feel like we’ll get there within the next year again. I mean even I was creating job listings at the time when everything started to shut down. So we were just right there.

Kelly: [0:18:36] You were all in this really interesting place. As a super nerd coach, I sort of can grok. And that is because of the diversity of the places you’re in. You’re working with Olympians, you’re working at this high-level sports performance, you’re also looking in development of foundational movement skills. It’s rare that I see coaches who actually dabble… Dabble’s not the right word. You’re not even a dilatant. Who are so competent on both sides of the spectrum. And one of the sort of salient pieces of my understanding and how I process the world is making sure that what I’m teaching to a beginner can scale infinitely, forever, all the way up to the high performance, right, that there’s a through line of thought and a clear moment of development. A lot of times people aren’t conscious of that. How does that influence what you’re doing because I’d like you to talk more about your volunteer work. Juliet and I are always loving these high performance and these other things. But you guys do such a good job on either side. How do you do that? How do you market to that? And is that a key piece of understanding why Pivotal’s so good at what you do?

Scott Hopson: [0:19:43] I’ll start, but I definitely want Hails to do the majority of this. I’ll go backwards. Is that one of the things that makes us distinctly different? A hundred percent yes. One hundred percent yes. That’s probably one of the only things that we could truly say or things that we’d say that’s what we offer at a world class level, is to connect the dots, the red thread that you were talking about between the diversity of populations, demands of movement, capacity and purpose, all the way through to how you actually coach that, different countries, different cultures, different languages, different linguistics, different… To do what we do, I think that’s quite unique, that part of what we do, what we have a passion for, which helps. 

I think the biggest soundbite I could give you, mate, would be the guiding principles. You would have heard me in that very first workshop you watched me talking is our job, Pivotal, is to not give you recipes. I’m done with that. I don’t – you want periodization for four-year macrocycle, you’ve got the wrong person. I do it but I don’t want to tell you how I do it. Go to other people that love doing that. What we will share are the key ingredients. So the model we talk about is being a head chef. Well, you have to start as a line chef. You’ve got to learn to slice and cut and dice and chop. And then you become a sous chef, now you’ve got to be responsible for cooking a variety of different menus. And then you’ve got the head chef, who says, well, the cooking is the easy part, how do I create experience so my customers keep coming back. Our job is to empower coaches with the key ingredients, become masters at the key ingredients of movement coaching program so that they can create infinite recipes. 

And that was a big shift for us, is I don’t want to create recipes for people anymore because until you’re an individual, your team, your coaches walk through the door, it’s going to change. Your recipe’s invariably going to change. Our job is to give you the GPS coordinates to know how to reroute. And that’s kind of what makes our red thread, what Hayley said, those connect with the dots, because we show people what the actual key dots are. I don’t think our industry has done a great job… Some people have done an exceptional job. But I don’t think we do a great job as an industry on agreeing on what are the fundamental ingredients of movement coaching. 

Hayley Hollander: [0:21:58] And I would just add to your question there, Kelly, not only do we have a large inventory of ingredients, as Scott has shared, but we also are so driven by our volunteer work. And I myself and Scott, we both got our starts and our passion from… Can you hear that? It’s the-

Juliet: [0:22:22] Yes.

Hayley Hollander: [0:22:22] It’s the Chicago Air and Water Show and we live on the lake. So there’s literally jets flying over right now. So I apologize. But what I was saying was that we both got our passion from coaches who were volunteers. They helped to guide us and ignite our imagination and what was possible within ourselves. And I think that that’s what drives us today is to volunteer to give that back to other kids, students, athletes all around the world so that they might have the same opportunities that we were given through movement. 

Kelly: [0:23:00] With that sort of scope of vision and experience and exposure, you all have been doing this long enough where you’ve seen sort of trends emerge. And you can see the trends at the top of the sport, and you can see the trends with kids coming in and learning movement practice and learning their bikes for the first time. Are you noticing or picking up these sort of meta trends in population? Are we doing a good job developing kids to be movers? Is it getting worse? And then how is that being complicated by COVID? Because I think you all are seeing the whole elephant, so when you describe it, you really have a good view and a handle on inputs and outputs from children all the way up to Olympians.

Juliet: [0:23:43] My color commentary is that Scott and Hayley were both laughing when Kelly was asking that question. So I’ll let you guys take it away. But it was nice to see your reactions. 

Scott Hopson: [0:23:52] Simple. Three words: yes, no, no. Yes, we’re seeing trends. No, it’s not getting better. And no, we’re not helping the problem. Yes, no, no. The foundational statement I have for this… Because the next thing that we’re bringing out is our youth movement certification globally. The reason I say that is because the foundational guided principal is we have the first generation of youth in history with a lower life expectancy than their parents. We’ve literally reversed the curve. Our children are scheduled to die sooner from adult diseases than we will. 

Kelly: [0:24:24] But my 14-year-old is an elite pitcher, right? How do I reconcile those two things? I’m just kidding. I don’t have a 14-year-old. 

Scott Hopson: [0:24:32] By 16 but they’re elite. Yeah.

Kelly: [0:24:35] Yeah. 

Scott Hopson: [0:24:36] The second part of that is just take the U.S. alone, right? We have over 55 to 56 million kids a year in registered school between the ages of 6 and 14. Fifty-six million. We have 3.5 million coaches coaching those 56 million kids. Ninety-five percent are volunteers with no education certification in children, let alone movement or coaching. In children. And so when you look at the big three or four reasons why kids drop out of movement, it’s because of that. It’s neurotic parents, ill-equipped coaches, and reoccurring preventable injuries. 

The full point is it conflicts with the neurotic idea of what we need to achieve academically. These kids are getting four hours of sleep a day, practice tennis 5 a.m., then they go to school for eight hours, then they practice another two hours of tennis, and then they go home and do four hours of homework and repeat all year round. And they’re being coached by people who aren’t educated in coaching kids, let alone movement. So I think those two statements for us are why we’re so passionate about youth movement and more importantly, youth development through movement. Social, emotional, cognitive, spiritual, you name it, is that it’s getting worse by the day. The stats are unequivocal in that. So yeah, it has trends. Very clear. It has causal factors, very clear. And no, we’re not helping it.

Juliet: [0:25:56] What do you guys think the solution is because we see this not only professionally, but just even in our personal lives, right? Like our kids have both done a variety of sports and their chosen sport now is water polo. But kids want to participate in all these sports. The only way that it can happen is if there’s some dad or mom who wants to volunteer their time to coach. And they’re not going to do it if they have to go through some, you know, jump through a bunch of hoops of learning how to coach or whatever it is.

Kelly: [0:26:23] The hoop of being skilled.

Juliet: [0:26:25] The hoop of being, having a shred of skill. And so I mean, I don’t know, how do you guys think we approach this? To me it should be a minimum that everyone who interacts with children should be a Positive Coaching Alliance Certified Coach. I mean that should be like a bare minimum. But again, you go back to this thing of like, okay, here, I’m some dad who’s going to volunteer my time to coach the middle school volleyball team. And I actually have a full-time job, I’m not going to go educate myself on-

Kelly: [0:26:49] Or I don’t know where to start. 

Juliet: [0:26:50] Yeah. Or where do you even start or set up some kind of standards? What do you guys think? How do we even begin to chip away at what I agree is a massive problem?

Scott Hopson: [0:27:00] You want to start? I’ll finish it, Hails.

Hayley Hollander: [0:27:02] I’ll start, you finish. I would say one of the first steps in terms of finding a solution is creating accessible education for any human being that is going to coach a child to move. Because if we can provide them with the right information to help inspire that youngster to move in ways that they weren’t doing before, but do it in a way that’s safe, that’s not so much focused on an outcome but more focused on let’s explore what this looks like for you, movement discovery through healthy movement nutrition, that’s really what we need to do in terms of step one. Make it accessible.

Kelly: [0:27:45] You said healthy movement nutrition. What do you mean by that?

Hayley Hollander: [0:27:48] I’ll let Scott explain.

Scott Hopson: [0:27:49] In our youth movement, we call it movement nourishment. We look at these physical development models and then we look at the reformations of these models and we look at the key skills. There’s nothing that we don’t know, it’s just no one’s really connecting the dots. But when we talk about nutrition, fueling the body, that’s what movement does. I don’t know any one component that could help us not only preventing injuries and upgrade performance but reverse the curve of disease and disability in youth more than movement. If I look at all the research, there’s nothing, no single factor, that would reverse that curve more than nutrient rich movement. Movement that nourishes mind and body. It’s kind of one of our guiding principles for our new certification. 

The thing that Hails said perfectly is you’ll probably notice with kids is the Khan Academy, the online educational resource that’s exploded. And not only is it not seen as a conflict to education and homeschooling, but it’s what kids come home and use now. It’s a free online… The world’s best subject experts all contribute to Khan Academy and kids get this brilliant education that supports their in-school education. Our concept is, well, why isn’t there a Khan Academy of movement, because when you look at Khan Academy, they’ve got every subject matter in the world except-

Juliet: [0:29:12] Movement. 

Scott Hopson: [0:29:14] That’s our job, is to create a Khan Academy globally. So I’ve kind of announced the big picture of the youth movement, which Kell, you know I’ve been knocking on your door a while about this prior to COVID, is I think we need a Khan Academy that’s accessible to everybody, that they can do anywhere on any device at any time, that’s no barrier to entry but it’s actually fueled by the best brains in the world around child development movement. Because if 95 percent of people, to your point, Juliet, have not only the mind but the heart to give back and be of service in what little time they have anyway to coach your kids for free, the least we can do is upskill them to, A) not bust kids, and B) upgrade movement. Because the idea that it should all be done by strength and conditioning coach drives me bonkers because none of them are volunteering their time. None of them are showing up on the muddy soccer pitch at 9 p.m. on a Tuesday night for free. You know, this is our world. We own youth movement certified. Okay, but you’re not actually showing up to help our kids. 

Meanwhile, millions of people are giving up their time for free. They just lack the skillsets and information. It’s not rocket science. I’m pretty sure we could bridge that gap. And the last things we need are a big voice. We need a really big voice to make it heard. Just like Positive Coaching Alliance, which is everywhere now, right? It doesn’t matter who you are. You go in and do your modules to coach little kickers or softball or kids’ rugby, you have to go through PCA. Why couldn’t you just make that the same for our concept of youth movement?

Juliet: [0:30:47] Yeah, I mean I really love that idea. And I think the accessibility is so… I mean the accessibility and have it technologically capable so people can listen to a movement seminar while they’re doing the dishes or whatever they’re doing, right? Like make it super accessible. And I think it’s so smart too because there’s so many people in this industry who I think have a voice and want to give back and share and could care less if they’re making money if it’s helping sort of move the curve the opposite direction. So I think that’s a genius idea. And I think you should start getting all your friends on board and making contact because I think it’s so needed. 

Kelly: [0:31:22] Seriously. What do you guys even do with your days? It’s so amazing.

Juliet: [0:31:25] I think probably your main problem is you’ve been emailing Kelly about this. But you know, we can talk about that later. The back question… Kind of rolled right into that.

Kelly: [0:31:34] Keep bringing it, baby. 

Juliet: [0:31:34] Sorry.

Kelly: [0:31:36] You’re not wrong. 

Juliet: [0:31:36] The sub-question I have though is how do you get these people to know they should care because I find that to always be the problem. Let me give you… And this maybe isn’t even the best example. But like our daughter does this Olympic lifting club. You know, her sport is water polo; she’s a goalie. We put her in Olympic lifting club because we want her to be strong and injury proof.

Kelly: [0:31:58] Coordinated.

Juliet: [0:31:58] And coordinated, and all these things. And then we were showing this video to her water polo coach. And then her water polo coach’s reaction was, oh my God, isn’t she going to get injured doing that, and isn’t that bad for her, right? So I mean, I think we forget in these high-performance environments that that’s actually like 98 percent of youth coaches don’t come from a tradition of strength and conditioning and they don’t understand-

Kelly: [0:32:18] Or movement.

Juliet: [0:32:18] That strength and conditioning is a way of practicing movement. So there’s like such a massive disconnect. So it’s like I feel like you have to educate people first that they should even care, and then once you have them care, you have to say, dude, I have the Khan Academy for movement, and here’s where to get all this free stuff. But there’s a gap there. How do you deal with that gap?

Scott Hopson: [0:32:40] I think it’s obviously multi-faceted, right? But the biggest thing that comes to our mind is you’ve got to go after the real stakeholders, which is the parents. That’s the Starbucks mums who invariably change the world when they decide to. And when you look at say just travel soccer alone in the U.S., how many billions of dollars that brings in through kids 6 through 18 years of age. Parents spend $3,000 to $3,500 a season on their kids to go play for these travel soccer teams. That’s just one sport. Those parents want to know not only are my kids being developed and enjoying a sport that they love, but actually they’re being taken care of. I think the answer is we don’t go ask the coaches first. You don’t go after the schools first. You go after the real stakeholders. The real stakeholders who actually have all the influence, who are on the advisory boards at the schools, who are on the parent community boards at the schools. 

And ultimately, when you look at these volunteer organizations like AYSO, the largest development soccer organization in the U.S., it’s all volunteer. The directors of every board are volunteer parents. I think you go after the stakeholders and you need a really loud, loud microphone to do it. Because when you look at PCA, how incredible they are, you look at their board and it’s Hall of Famers and ESPN analysts and pro athletes. And it works. You need a large voice to speak to the stakeholders in my opinion. It’s not going to go through the coaches. I don’t think so.

Kelly: [0:34:02] Yeah. I would jump in and just say that I think this is so important about shifting the parameters of who owns what. I really, I like that, right, because then you really are driving this bigger conversation. You know, we know, we just worked with and supported England Soccer for the last little Europa Cup thing that they did. And I don’t know if you know Scott Rosenblatt, super coach, PhD, brilliant. But he has said that there is a generation of young footballers who care about their nutrition, who care about their sleep, who are really pushing this old guard of strength and conditioning. These kids are like it’s not good enough, what you’re delivering is actually not delivering enough. And what we’re starting to see is the top down trickle, the mimicking of social media, when youth kids see professional ballers eating food and talking about sleep and recovery, that comes down from that side too. Are you seeing those trends at your high end of the spot, where people are realizing that it’s a real competitive advantage due to things like have normative range of motion or sleep? I mean the bar is so low sometimes I’m like, really, you’re going to pay me that to tell you that? Sounds good.

Scott Hopson: [0:35:11] Yeah, you mean like when they’re saying  how can I peak wattage on a [inaudible] and you’re like well, it helps if you can get in position. Like that kind of thing. 

Kelly: [0:35:21] Same, same. Same, same. Are you guys seeing those trends at the top, that there are changes, that we’re going to lose a generation of people here, but we may or we may not capture a whole generation of people in time? Sometimes that’s how I feel. I’m like we’re going to have to start again with younger kids.

Scott Hopson: [0:35:37] The latter one for me is when I’m seeing. We’re going to have to start again. I think our industries, like the movement industries, health to wellness, fitness performance, rehab, we think we’re innovative, but we’re actually not. We’re very reformative. We take the same thing and we keep reforming it. There’s really no innovation to what we do. And sometimes you’ve got to wait until the thing crumbles to do it back up. Going back to the stats I talked about with the youths, we’ve pretty much hit bottom. We’ve hit bottom. Problem is, every bottom has a trap door. So we can always go a bit further. We need to use that bottom to our advantage now and say, here are the facts. I think the stakeholders will agree that’s enough. I think that’s where it starts. I think it’s going to be starting again. I do. And I think to your point, the influences who are currently in place, I don’t know if they’ve got that inner mindset to shift the inner place from which they operate.

Juliet: [0:36:33] Kelly and I were just guests on a different podcast and someone asked… We were talking about sort of our industry at large, and I think we’ve said this a few times before, but I mean we sort of have this feeling that we’ve done a really good job in our industry sort of making everybody in this little vertical much better, right? Like the athletes who are already athletes and are already inclined to exercise and eat well, they’re eating even better and taking even better supplements and doing all the right and better recovery things, and getting a movement coach and understanding all those things. But we’ve just been talking to ourselves in this little chamber of other people who are just like us. So we’ve made ourselves better in this industry, right? 

I mean I’m not saying you guys because you guys obviously are out there really trying to make a difference in sort of the larger world. But I think by and large in this industry, we’ve just done a great job of making people in the industry and people who relate to it better. But that’s like two percent of people. And we’ve done a horrible job both with kids and adults alike, just sort of leaving them and saying, look, if you can’t relate to all these crazy things we’re doing, you’re out.

Kelly: [0:37:33] Yeah, it’s peak industrial fitness. We’ve commoditized fitness to make money. That’s what its goal is. 

Juliet: [0:37:37] Yeah. So it seems like you guys are really sort of trying to buck that trend a little bit and actually be inclusive and teach regular people how to do things, or at least teach their coaches, which I think is the key.

Scott Hopson: [0:37:48] You know, it makes me think of something that I heard you say before anybody, Kell, and I’m kind of paraphrasing here, messing it up, but it was the concept that every human being has the right to own their own health. And so who are we to say you’ve got to see the physio for this, you’ve got to see the strength coach for this, you’ve got to see the personal trainer. If one person has the answers to all of your ailments, you have the right to go wherever you need to go to own your own health. I think that’s so true with the topic we’re talking about, is we’re going to have to break some existing belief systems and models of what is and isn’t in our scope of practice, what is and isn’t appropriate. I see no downside to the next-door neighbor who’s coaching my kid’s soccer for free five nights a week learning how to do a safe play metric to prevent 400 percent increase in teenage girls ACLs, because that’s what it is. They have a 400 percent increase in a double ACL tear compared to boys. If you’ve had one, there’s a 400 percent chance you’re going to have a double more than the same age boy.

Juliet: [0:38:49] And then isn’t there something like a 40 percent chance you’re going to have a knee replacement if you’ve had the ACL, right? So it’s like not just that.

Kelly: [0:38:54] Higher than that.

Juliet: [0:38:55] So it’s some huge percentage of ACL tear people have to get their knee replaced later in life. So it’s a big impact.

Kelly: [0:39:00] Let me jump in. This is so… There’s a whole bunch of physios on the net, and I’m just going to throw us all under the bus right here, who say things like injury prevention is not possible. Do you guys agree with that? Can we reduce injury risk? Can we prevent injuries?

Scott Hopson: [0:39:15] Obviously we can mitigate. Absolutely we can mitigate.

Kelly: [0:39:20] Let me just drill down that. Isn’t that just like a… Are you equivocating like a wimp? You’re like, ooh, mitigation, attenuation. So FIFA’s a great example. FIFA came out with a jumping program because they saw this epidemic in youth girls particularly of having these lower extremity injuries. And they came out with a simple program that coaches could do. And you don’t have to do it well. And it proved to reduce injury. Kids who sleep or don’t get sleep are more injury prone, right? So if I can answer that question, you sleep, you’re less likely to get injured, isn’t that injury prevention? Or is that just, are we just mitigating or splitting hairs?

Scott Hopson: [0:39:55] No. I agree with that. I would absolutely. If we got rid of the nomenclature game, yeah, of course you can. It’s like saying that smoking really increases your chances of getting lung cancer. In fact, there’s a picture of death on the packet and you do it anyway. That’s like saying, oh, but if you don’t smoke you definitely won’t get lung cancer, and if you do smoke, you definitely will. That’s not what we’re saying. But if you do smoke, there’s a really, really high chance it’s going to cause disease. Fact. The same is true for us. If you move with these key ingredients, there’s a really, really, really proven chance that you’re not going to get injured like the people that don’t do it. 

Kelly: [0:40:30] One of the things I think gets lost in this conversation is that we’re thinking if you do this secret squirrel squat perfectly, you won’t get injured, right? That’s what I think people are thinking. And yet, one of the reasons I think sport is so important is that it may be the only place where we can talk about sleep, and nutrition, and self-soothing, and stress, and breathing, and movement, and play, right? Where else do you get this information? Because what I see is that, well, if you’re going to go see a physician, she’s not going to have time to talk to you about it. And your physio definitely doesn’t get reimbursed, is not a stakeholder in this. So where do you get this information? Well, it’s come out of sport. That’s why it’s crucial that you have the exposure. And that’s not even a question. Sorry, Juliet. But one of the things that I think that you do really well-

Juliet: [0:41:18] Get to it, get to it.

Kelly: [0:41:19] I will. One of the things… Because we’re having a convo here, just not questions. Is that you spend a lot of time working with trainers at big facilities. Like you go to Idea, you probably been to Camp Fit Pro. There are a lot of people teaching and training people, I’m not going to use the word coach, I’m going to use the word trainer that everyone else uses, in like YMCA environments. Those are the healthcare providers who are giving all of the information about how to do all of this to the average person who has no exposure to high level sport. You agree?

Scott Hopson: [0:41:53] Yes. 

Hayley Hollander: [0:41:53] Yes.

Kelly: [0:41:54] So at some point, I mean how do we do a better job then of shifting, because I think I have come to believe that because of sport we know how to eat, because of sport we know how to sleep, we know how to take care of our tissues. The things that have come out of performance… It’s Franz Basch. There’s more variation in waltzing than there is in sprinting. Because of sprinting we know best ways to jump and land and to move, right? But we know how to get the most out of the human body. Why can’t we sort of apply those lessons more globally? Why is there so much dissonance and friction into just taking these lessons and applying to sports across the platform?

Scott Hopson: [0:42:32] I’ll just say something quick. I think the system is set up to block it. The systems that we operate in are designed operationally and certainly fiscally, financially, to keep us in separate silos and never shall we cross and share information. We see this daily because one day for Gray Institute, when we do movement assessment, we’re physical therapist and neither of us are physical therapists. Interesting. Next day, we’re educating personal trainers on personal training. Not strength and conditioning, personal training. Are you kidding me? Movement’s movement. Load is load. What it’s all about. And then we’re in Brazil with professional soccer. And we go home and people say, man, how do you wear different hats. We’re like, 90 percent was the same, it was just a different delivery. Our industry is set up to think that we’re disagreeing and living in different worlds.

Juliet: [0:43:20] Well, yeah, because you guys are teaching principles and principles, it doesn’t matter what audience you are teaching them to, they’re principles.

Scott Hopson: [0:43:30] Correct. So I think the system itself has to change. And I’m hoping that’s one of the good things of the pandemic because I think right now about 33 to 35 percent of all the major clubs, studios and gyms in North America alone aren’t coming back. So there’s going to be a new birth of something. Something’s going to fill that space. That’s one of the positives. Something innovative we didn’t even know we didn’t know will come into the space. 

Juliet: [0:43:47] Do you guys think… Do you worry a little bit about that? I mean I guess this would be for all three of you as sort of movement coaches and people who are passionate about movement. I do think actually going to the gym, in obviously varying degrees of quality, was the only place for most people where they got any movement coaching.

Kelly: [0:44:17] Or any unconditional positive regard.

Juliet: [0:44:18] Yeah. And now I think it’s awesome that people can get their Peloton and their tonal and all their connected fitness. You know, it’s super easy. Through Rogue you can buy a full garage setup. So I think that’s where a lot of people are going to go. They’re going to go into their garage and on to their Peloton and into their living room and that’s where they’re going to get their fitness. But I do worry a little bit that that’s going to even take the, what, 30 or 40 percent of the people who go to the gym out of a coached environment and we’re going to sort of see a loss of movement coaching in people’s lives. Do you guys agree? What do you think?

Hayley Hollander: [0:44:55] I agree. I think that there’s going to be a divot in the fitness industry. I think that many people as consumers of movement are embracing this digital wave, this ability to do it in my own space, in my own way. But ultimately, I think any human being who is going to find, hey, I’m struggling to do this, I’m struggling to lose weight, I’m struggling to perform better, they’re going to seek the advice of a professional. You can’t do surgery on yourself. So even though we’re going to see this divot right now, I think that people are going to eventually come back to this space where they can engage with a professional that helps them get to where they want to go and really change their movement mindset that they do need to be in a space where I can be supported by individuals of similar mindsets, that I can compete at a higher level because the person next to me is now working just as hard as me. Those things will come back, but we definitely are going to see a divot for a while. 

Kelly: [0:46:04] Let me pivot here. What are we doing right? What are we getting right around teaching kids, development of athleticism? What are the wins?

Scott Hopson: [0:46:13] In those early years between like 6 and 18, well, actually more like 6 and 14, we have a 75 percent uptake of the population sign up for movement. Seventy-five percent, I mean that’s huge. Three out of four kids between the age of 6 and 14 are in registered sport. That’s huge. [inaudible]

Kelly: [0:46:32] You said 75 percent?

Scott Hopson: [0:46:33] Yeah, but here’s the problem. Within a 12-month period, 80 percent drop out. That’s the issue. In a 12-month period, guess what age that is? They go from I love movement, I love sport, I love teammates, I love being coached, to that’s not part of my life. And actually, by the time they get to 16 years of age, we now have 85 to 90 percent of high school kids don’t even meet the recommend daily minimum. So we go from 75 percent exceeding it to 85 percent underneath within a 12-month period. So it would make logical sense to this idiot’s brain that we might want to look at that 12-month period and say what the heck is going on.

Juliet: [0:47:15] Yeah, right. What can we do differently during that 12-month period?

Scott Hopson: [0:47:19] Right. So you talk about getting small to get big, it seems like we do a great job at the beginning. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. We do awesome. And we have opportunity and access that we’ve never had before, less barriers than we’ve ever had before. So we do a lot right. But along the way, something’s going gradually wrong that within 12 months the kids drop out. And those biggest reasons are conflict with academic performance, too many injuries. And we’ve got some stats on that. It’s scary how many kids end up in the ER; 2.6 million a year end up in the ER. In the ER for noncontact, preventable injuries. Ouch. And they’re coached by 95 percent of adults who have no experience. And they’ve got neurotic parents who want them to be Tiger Woods, and get a 4.5 and do 15 AP classes. There’s a 12-month period where we kind of know the wheels come off, might be a good place to start.

Kelly: [0:48:16] You sort of let the cat out of the bag a little bit in terms of sort of some of the places you’re going. But just as a sort of, again, I relate to you so many different levels, as parents, as coaches. What are you nerding out about yourselves in your own sort of physicality, practice, understanding who’s-

Juliet: [0:48:36] What are you talking about? Scott’s on his way to becoming national tennis champion.

Kelly: [0:48:38] Well, that’s what I mean. I mean what’s kind of informing or just lighting up your physical coaching practice selves? You know what I mean? You’re like this person.

Hayley Hollander: [0:48:50] Ooh. I think Scott should go first on this one. I want to marinate.

Scott Hopson: [0:48:54] Nice words. Nice words. I’ve fallen in love with tennis. And for me, I compete in rugby both in the UK and in Chicago, at national D1 level for years. And then when everyone was half my age and twice my size, I realized it was a good time to stop doing that. And I started coaching. It’s been so long since I myself now am back in that realm of being what it is to be the athlete, the teammate, being coached performative, it’s really ignited my desire for challenge and uncertainty and the young mind. 

And so in the last two years, I’ve become obsessed with things on the water. I’ve never water skied. Tried it, now obsessed. Never done stand up paddle, now I’m like okay, I’ve got to go now today. And growing up in cities, you don’t get a lot of opportunity and access to big bodies of water that’s safe or clean. So living on Lake Michigan now, I’ve fallen in love with sports I’ve always wanted to try. And skiing. I just took up skiing a couple of winters ago and I’m obsessed. So a lot of the physical realm, it’s reattaching myself to the unknown and the leap of faith that comes with I’m clearly going to fail at this. It’s not an if. I’m going to fall down that mountain the first time I try and ski. And it’s really, I don’t know how else to say it, it’s re-sparked in me that thing that was the thing when I was a kid. The thing that got me into this industry. It’s interesting how you kind of lose it, and then you reclaim it. So on a physical level, I’ve really started to expand into new movement skills, technical skills, sport skills that for one reason or another I never tried, even though I always wanted to. 

Kelly: [0:50:44] I love that. And I also love that you have to eat your own cooking. You know, you’re like-

Juliet: [0:50:48] Yeah, you’re like is this working.

Kelly: [0:50:49] You should do a dynamic warm up. You’re like, well, I have three minutes before my tennis. Okay. Here’s the realities of where the rubber hits the road. You’re like I’m in a hotel and I can’t organize my macros. You’re like, I guess I’ll eat this strawberry and this bar. I mean it’s just so interesting to see the realities of trying to actually fit it together in your own adult practice.

Scott Hopson: [0:51:09] And what you get then also, right, is you see how the resiliency that you’ve built in the things you could control, like now it’s showing off. It was 96 degrees, 92 percent humidity, and people were changing their shirts every three games. And as the game went on, I was getting more alert, more alive. It was because I’ve spent these years building a robust engine, now it shows up. And so it reminds you, oh yeah, I guess what we do does work.

Hayley Hollander: [0:51:39] So similar to Scott, you know, I am really into tennis. I’ve been competing in tennis for the last five years on the team. But lately, my focus has been more about recovery and just working on breathing because I’ve had some health issues. I was diagnosed with a rare condition of subglottic stenosis, which is why I had surgery recently. There was a tumor growing in my trachea. And it changed everything I could do. I wasn’t able to do the simple things like walking up a flight of stairs. So my mindset has shifted. It’s opened my eyes a lot to what are the simple things when it comes to recovery about breathing tempo, how much to breathe. That’s really been my focus lately. But I’m very eager to get back on the court.

Scott Hopson: [0:52:32] Hails, you can’t leave it there. Tell them by the day of surgery, what was the diameter of your trachea?

Hayley Hollander: [0:52:41] The diameter of my trachea was about six millimeters or the size of a stud earring.

Juliet: [0:52:46] Oh my God.

Kelly: [0:52:47] Trachea is, just so everyone knows, that’s your windpipe.

Juliet: [0:52:49] Yeah. There’s some important things that happen with your trachea.

Kelly: [0:52:53] Could you whistle on command, just by breathing? I mean that’s-

Hayley Hollander: [0:52:56] Pretty much. Every time I was inhaling, it sounded like a whistle. I was like-

Kelly: [0:53:00] Your CO2 tolerance must have been through the roof.

Hayley Hollander: [0:53:03] My blood pressure was also very high. And just the simple things that you don’t really realize are so connected to your breathing. It changed a lot for me. 

Scott Hopson: [0:53:15] They couldn’t even intubate her. She goes into surgery and they’re like, we’re having a problem. They literally… Her trachea was smaller than the intubation tube. 

Kelly: [0:53:23] Get that pediatric neo nate-

Juliet: [0:53:25] So you look and seem like you are recovering really well. Are you?

Hayley Hollander: [0:53:30] I am. Yes. I am. 

Kelly: [0:53:34] Juliet and I, I don’t know if you all, I mean you just went through this, but we are suddenly playing a very different game in our… We’re almost 50, and we’re playing this game called durability because the shiz is coming. Things are going to pop up. And what we’re starting to see is maybe it’s not my performance on the tennis court, nerd, but I was able to rebound from my knee surgery a little faster than the average kid. And it’s like I put in a lot of time to make that happen. So kudos to you for having the longest pre-surgery prep anyone has ever done.

Hayley Hollander: [0:54:04] Thank you. 

Scott Hopson: [0:54:07] No kidding that the shiz is coming. I sometimes wake up, look at the pillow, pick up the latest hair that’s fallen out and go what kept it in yesterday, man.

Juliet: [0:54:16] Yeah, you’re like why now, why today? What is going on here?

Scott Hopson: [0:54:19] Is this normal?

Juliet: [0:54:20] Look at how far ahead you are of Kelly. I mean you’re just winning right now. Winning in the hair game.

Kelly: [0:54:25] Hey hon? We’re going to have a talk about my feelings after this. I’m making a note for our feelings meeting. How do you feel about that?

Juliet: [0:54:32] Well, this is a perfect segue-

Kelly: [0:54:32] Go ahead.

Juliet: [0:54:34] This is a perfect segue to what I was most excited to talk to you guys about in this conversation, which is working together with your spouse. Kelly and I have obviously been doing it a bit longer than the two of you. But nevertheless, it’s always an ongoing thing. And I just would love to hear what’s worked well, what’s been a struggle for you guys, what really bugs you, what you’re working on. How do you guys manage it?

Scott Hopson: [0:55:00] I think it bodes well for me to let you say everything, and I just say agree.

Juliet: [0:55:07] Smart man. 

Hayley Hollander: [0:55:07] Well, I think working together has just been such a joy because Scott’s my best friend. We love the same things. We like to do the same things. But don’t get me wrong, we also like our own space. To me, Scott, he’s the ultimate alchemist. He can pull together the greatest ideas and put it on the table. And my brain is more a visionary/observer. I’m into the details. So I can see how it comes together. And I really enjoy that chemistry that we have. Scott, I think is also a comedian in training. He’s so funny. And I think that his sense of humor allows us to find the moments where things could get really serious and go the wrong way in a different light. And so I think working together, we find the balance because of his personality and my personality and understanding how and what each of us needs in each moment.

Kelly: [0:56:11] Has playing tennis brought you closer together, Scott?

Scott Hopson: [0:56:13] Yes, it has because that’s how we started, is we just said we want to learn. And we went and got a coach. And every Tuesday morning at 8 a.m., we would turn up and be coached together. That’s literally how it started, was to say, hey, we need to learn a new sport and challenge together, which is pretty cool, you know?

Juliet: [0:56:31] Yeah. I mean Kelly and I are so codependent that maybe this is not healthy, but we would never, like neither one of us I think at this point would really ever start like a sport or something without-

Kelly: [0:56:40] Consciously. 

Juliet: [0:56:40] Consciously, without doing it without the other person because it’s so hard for me to relate. If you have one person who’s into golf and they’re gone for nine hours every Saturday playing golf, that would be weird for us. 

Kelly: [0:56:51] It wouldn’t work for us. Might work for other people.

Juliet: [0:56:53] Yeah. It may work for other people and people are less codependent than we are. But that would be tough for us. So we actually, when it comes to sports, we do them together.

Hayley Hollander: [0:57:01] Yeah. We’re pretty similar in that regard. If we’re going to try something, we do it together because when we try something, we’re all in. Like we want the best experience, we want to go after it.

Scott Hopson: [0:57:13] Yeah. We don’t really do learning things in moderation. 

Kelly: [0:57:19] All or nothing. Scotty, tell me about what it’s like to work with your wife, because a lot of people come to us and say how do you guys work together, I could never work with my spouse. And I’m like I actually can’t imagine working with anyone else. I mean no one else would tolerate me. But no one else has the brain.

Scott Hopson: [0:57:32] I think they’re asking the wrong question or don’t realize they’ve already answered it. When someone says how do you work with your life partner, I’m like you’ve clearly got the wrong wife for life partner. It’s a moot question.

Kelly: [0:57:42] You do work with them every day to like get your kids ready.

Scott Hopson: [0:57:45] You creating a home together, you’re parenting kids together, you’re building a life together. You’re already doing everything together. So the fact that now we’re innovating together or teaching together is the deal breaker, you’ve probably got the wrong partner, in my mind. Do you know what I mean? Like kind of thought the team thing was what you were doing the whole time. I will say this though, the one thing I would add on is her ability to complement. I’ve had to get really right sized in my life, let alone my career, and let go of the things that don’t serve me anymore, especially the things that I thought I was good at or were good for me and neither were true. 

Kelly: [0:58:23] It’s called going from a boy to a man. Congratulations.

Scott Hopson: [0:58:26] Yeah. I’m emotionally 18 now. I’ve grown up a lot. Definitely because of Hayley. Her ability to absolutely recognize my character defects, whether it’s personally or in this case professionally, but not bring the heat, because I’ve got enough of that. You have to know yourself honestly enough to say how are we going to be most emotionally compatible here. And so she has this unbelievable ability to say, right, that’s your character defect, that’s not serving you, but deliver it in a way that says, hey, here’s the solution. It takes a special person to do that with me. I won’t accept that from many people.

Kelly: [0:59:07] You’re a big personality. I can understand why that would be tricky. You’d have to be a ninja to be able to deliver the cut, the coup de gras, at the right moment. 

Hayley Hollander: [0:59:13] Exactly. 

Juliet: [0:59:15] Do you actually… I’m sorry, I have to know. Do you actually present it to him by using the word character defect or is that his own interpretation?

Kelly: [0:59:24] Hole in the soul.

Juliet: [0:59:24] Do you say it more diplomatically or do you just cut right to it, and say character defect?

Hayley Hollander: [0:59:30] Yeah, no, the language I use is more along the lines of opportunity. 

Kelly: [0:59:36] And there’s an opportunity cost here. 

Scott Hopson: [0:59:41] One thing I like though is when you do everything together out of love and a shared joy in your life, it’s good to miss each other. And I said to Hayley about a year and a half into the pandemic, I said, “Babe, as much as I love being with you, I miss missing you.” Like those weekends on the road or that week in China where we weren’t together, you get your own space. You need that too. But then by day two or three, man, I have to get back to Hayley and the pups and our sacred space. That’s what we’ve created, that sacred space. And I said during the pandemic, “Babe, I miss missing you.” Not because I want to be away from you, I just miss that feeling of, wow, you know, I want to get home to you. So it’s interesting. As much as we wouldn’t want it any other way, I kind of missed missing her sometimes during the pandemic.

Kelly: [1:00:28] Juliet will call. I live with three incredible lionesses, women, and sometimes I just lurk around by the barbecue by myself. Juliet’s like you’re just barbecuing chicken. And I’m like, mmm, just barbecuing chicken.

Juliet: [1:00:42] There’s a long history of that though because when I went into labor with Georgia, which took way too long, Kelly actually was barbecuing during that, and we had like a barbecuer, not a gas, but he had to make the coals and everything. So I’m just there like laboring away in the living room and Kelly-

Kelly: [1:00:57] With three women.

Juliet: [1:00:58] Literally barbecuing.

Kelly: [1:00:59] Yeah, it was easy. 

Juliet: [1:00:59] So there’s a long history of barbecuing.

Kelly: [1:01:01] It’s called self-soothing. Self-soothing. It’s the way I self-soothe. Okay. Just so we don’t hold you forever. You have created a ton of resources for people. Where can people find out more about the way you’re coaching and what’s going on?

Hayley Hollander: [1:01:13] First and foremost, they can go to our website, pivotal-coaching.com. On social, we use Instagram quite a bit, so @pivotal_coaching.

Kelly: [1:01:25] And I will just point out to people you should go there if you’re a coach and just watch. There’s so many great things. I really love just to be a voyeur on your coaching. You guys are very transparent about how you coach and I appreciate that. 

Hayley Hollander: [1:01:37] Thank you. And likewise, to you guys as well.

Kelly: [1:01:39] Are your individual selves on the Insta?

Hayley Hollander: [0:00:00] Hails the trainer is. That’s @hailsthetrainer. But Scott is not.

Scott Hopson: [1:01:50] I haven’t been on social media in 10 years.

Juliet: [1:01:53] You lucky dog.

Kelly: [1:01:54] We laugh because I’m not on social media either.

Juliet: [1:01:55] Lucky dog.

Kelly: [1:01:56] Juliet’s on social media about our family. But I’m actually not on social media. Our business, I mean of course I’m all over The Ready State, but I’m not actually on social media. I just consume social media.

Juliet: [1:02:04] You know, I will tell you guys Kelly has an avatar on Facebook, Brynn Blaine.

Kelly: [1:02:08] Oh boy.

Juliet: [1:02:08] Which is a long story. But I had been with one of my best friends, Max, you guys probably know Max from The Ready State. It was like five years into Kelly being Brynn Blaine and I was always tagging Brynn Blaine. And she was like who’s this Brynn Blaine you’re always doing stuff with. And I’m like dude, you’re my best friend. That’s Kelly. Brynn Blaine is Kelly. That’s his avatar. So that’s always one way to do it if you want to get back in there, Scott. You could just create an avatar and no one will know.

Juliet: [1:02:35] I love it. 

Kelly: [1:02:36] Until it’s revealed on national television. You two, thank you so much. Speedy recovery. Make those people you’re playing pay. Just make them, just break them at the net. Make them do the splits, make them twist, crush them.

Hayley Hollander: [1:02:51] I like it. 

Scott Hopson: [1:02:53] Thanks for having us. This was lovely. The time flew. I think we could just do another hour of like I said having a private conversation publicly. That’s what it felt like. 

Kelly: [1:03:00] And thanks for-

Juliet: [1:03:01] That’s the goal.

Kelly: [1:03:02] The official tenth people, the tenth person. I feel like you’re seeing things that the rest of us are missing and I wanted to bring it out. So thank you so much. 

Scott Hopson: [1:03:13] Lovely. 

Hayley Hollander: [1:03:14] Thank you guys.

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