The Ready State: Mobility Training with Dr. Kelly Starrett › Forums › Foot/Ankle › I’ve Been Doing It Wrong For YEARS – The Process Begins

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    • 05/12/2016 at 3:00 pm #71604
      AvatarSarah Meadows
      Participant

      My ankle is jacked up man.  Well, currently it’s my ankle.  It’s been ankles, knees, stress fractures in my feet, etc. for years now.  “Sports Docs” have given me beefier and beefier inserts for my shoes and the running store has given me beefier and beefier shoes… typical.  Flat feet = More Support…. right.

      To make a long story short.. I’m in a very typical situation.  I don’t want to be a competitive runner but I want to be able to run when I want to run and if I’m going to spend my time I want to be decent at it.
      Right now I’m reading Deskbound and loving it!  This week I have started walking with my feet straight.  I had no idea how bad of a duck walk / run I did my whole life but wow, what a change.  So long as I keep my feet straight and I remember to maintain an arch my ankle is golden!  Incredible!  Since this is new to me it has to be a very conscious effort but I’m sure that will become natural over time.
      I’m sure I’ll have lots of questions along the way but for now I’m curious about something that has come up since I started walking with my feet straight and maintaining an arch.  While this has helped my ankle tremendously it has caused something in my right foot.  The right foot is WAY WORSE than the left so this is not surprising.  On the bottom of my foot, under my little toe it feels like I’m walking on a marble.  By the end of the day it is down right painful.  I’m getting lots of “reps” in during the day so I’m hoping that my feet will simply adjust.  Does that sound like misguided optimism?
      I’m smashing, rolling, tacking, stretching, etc each night now.  I’m adding to the repertoire each time I read another section of the book but soon I’ll need to pick one and run with it a while.. can’t do all of them; time is money people  🙂
      Anyway, apologize for the long – winded – ness and I really look forward to any feedback you may be willing to offer.
    • 05/13/2016 at 1:03 am #76393
      AvatarKeith Broussard
      Participant

      It’s always hard to say when you have pain what the issue is especially without understanding your environmental loads previous movement history ect. I can say with reasonable confidence that aches and pains that develop from correcting foot position often go away as tissues “readapt” so you’re not unreasonably optimistic.

      Remember your body has adapted to your previous behaviors and injuries you have the right idea of this being a “process” but it will be a slow process. It takes something like two years to reconstruct the fascias of your body so be patient and be consistent.

      If you’re looking at getting into running two books I highly recommend are Ready to Run by Kelly Starrett. It has a lot of the same ideas as Deskbound but adds a few benchmarks to work towards before you start crushing miles. The second book Is Your Whole Body Barefoot by Katy Bowman. It’s an entire book that works on foot health, alignment/position and provides some more ideas on corrective strategies.

      Good luck on your journey!

    • 05/13/2016 at 11:38 am #76396
      AvatarSarah Meadows
      Participant

      Thats GREAT because I just started reading the Katy Bowman book yesterday!  I’m reading a bit of deskbound each night and trying the prescriptions and working on the other when I have time.  Even 2 days later (and lots of work on my feet) the marble feeling has diminished some.  

      At this point I think I need to improve internal rotation of my right leg.  It feels forced to keep my foot forward and I can feel it torque my knee.  It also feels like I weight the outside of my foot too much. 
      All in good time.  If anyone has dealt with a similar sitation / process I would love to hear words of wisdom.
    • 05/15/2016 at 9:29 pm #76401
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      Yes, you tissue will adapt to the new positioning.
      You are undoing the years of one positioning and re establishing a new motor pattern/positioning.

      Have you watched these episodes?
      Pro Episode #3 – The Flat Feet Solution

      Rebuilding Your Feet With Brian MacKenzie
      Rebuilding The Feet, Part 2

      Rebuilding The Feet, Part 3

      Episode 337: Long Ruck Feet Or Ultra Marathon Feet?

      Are you doing any exercises to strengthen your feet?
      There are some simple things you can do to strengthen your feet and it will assist in building your arch.

      Have you had anyone take a look at your running technique?
      I recommend video taping from a couple angles so you see exactly what is happening.

      Run Drills are a key aspect. Starting each run session with drills helps prime the movement patterns.
      6 week skill based run Progression
      Week 1: Using Turnover
      Week 2
      Week 3
      Week 4
      Week 5 Using Turnover Cadence
      Week 6 Restest

    • 05/16/2016 at 12:43 pm #76402
      AvatarSarah Meadows
      Participant

      I’m going to watch all of those when I can.  So start practicing this Pose Running technique?   I would like to be able to do long races at some point but I don’t really care about setting speed records.  I would just like to participate pain free.

    • 05/17/2016 at 12:43 am #76403
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      Yes, pose technique is the place to start.
      The technique applies to across and participating pain free.

    • 05/17/2016 at 12:37 pm #76404
      AvatarSarah Meadows
      Participant

      Well I’ve got some work to do.  Right now I’m working on the rebuilding my feet portion.  So far there has been noticeable change but it is still “forced” at this point.  I need to make sure to take my time… I tend to get….. over zealous. 

    • 05/17/2016 at 12:45 pm #76405
      AvatarSarah Meadows
      Participant

      Do you have a suggested progression?  I’m learning to walk again right now basically.  Started doing some hopping without allowing myself to collapse.  Should I stop running completely or try to do drills?  

      I know it’s probably very individual; any advice is appreciated.
    • 05/17/2016 at 2:33 pm #76406
      AvatarKeith Broussard
      Participant

      It’s a hard call without actually knowing where you’re at.

      I always suggest keeping it manageable chunks. If you’re transitioning to a flat shoe I recommend wearing those or go barefoot the majority of your time walking for at least a month before running.

      The brutal way to put it is it’s not OK to run like an fool. So if you find that you can’t run with respectable form. Just work on the skill. There are more ways to work on your cardiovascular capacity than just running.

      When you start to run again never run longer than you can keep good technique. This is humbling at first it may be less than a 100m. So due repeats. This is where a good running coach is important (if you have access to one). You will lie yourself because your aerobic engine is likely ssssooooo much bigger than your capacity to maintain position. Remember this it is no longer just about distance and speed. It is now about your capacity to run well.

      Also it’s a good idea to start to integrate “running skill” warm-up drills to your nonrunning workout warm ups. (assuming you lift weights).

    • 05/17/2016 at 2:36 pm #76407
      AvatarSarah Meadows
      Participant

      Not sure I’ll be able to swing a coach but I could see it being EXTREMELY valuable.  I don’t even know where I would find out.  I’ll just take it slow and keep watching those videos.  When I need to get after it cardio wise I’ll do so on my Airdyne or C2.  

      Yes I lift weights.  I was doing some of the hopping drills between sets of OH Pressing yesterday 🙂
    • 05/18/2016 at 5:20 pm #76409
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      The 6 week progression above has short repeats for the running while focusing on building the skill of running.
      The distances or time of running increases across.
      Some videos to start with
      CrossFit Endurance – Pose Running, Part I
      CrossFit Endurance – Pose Running, Part II
      CrossFit Endurance – Pose Running, Part III

      Falling in pose method of running
      Running drills breakdown

      Drill 1
      Drill 2

    • 06/07/2016 at 1:26 pm #76434
      AvatarSarah Meadows
      Participant

      Without getting too wordy I want to say I’ve made lots of progress and want to thank everyone for the help.

      Long story short.  Been doing the recommended.  Original ankle pain is all but resolved.  New problem / pain.
      I have always had flat feet.  Right foot has always been a lot worse.  Now that I walk with my feet straight and an arch (majority of the time when I’m conscious of it) things are a heck of a lot better.
      The thing is it feels like a cable is wrapped around the inside ankle bone.  If I stand correctly and bend my knees forward the right ankle just runs into a wall…. WAY before the other side.  This is clearly the problem but I can’t seem to make it budge.  At first I made lots of progress but doing the self maintenance, mobility drills, working on posture, etc isn’t making much a difference anymore.
      Step up the intensity?
      Change approaches?
      Any advice at all?
    • 06/07/2016 at 2:59 pm #76435
      AvatarAnonymous
      Guest

      Great to hear you are seeing alot of progress.
      Good to hear things are improving with your foot. Have you watched the 3 part series on rebuilding your feet?

      You may need to have your ankle adjusted by a chiropractor. Sounds like its position with in the joint needs attention. You are hitting bone on bone too early within the range of motion.
      I’ve seen this have a big impact with some ankle situations.

    • 06/07/2016 at 3:02 pm #76436
      AvatarSarah Meadows
      Participant

      Interesting.  As I lean forward its like the steel cable winds up and just runs out of slack.  It almost feels like if I could just pop my ankle it would move properly.  Is that crazy to think?  Try a chiropractor then?

    • 06/07/2016 at 6:32 pm #76437
      AvatarAnonymous
      Guest

      Your ankle may be in the front of the socket which limits range of motion.
      A chiropractor or manual PT.

    • 06/16/2016 at 12:41 pm #76449
      AvatarSarah Meadows
      Participant

      I’m back.  I’ve seen a Chiro 3 times now and she recommends a 30 visit course of action.  There is an abnormal curvature to my spine from my hips through my lumbar region.  This costs about 1k.  She says that the nerves are likely in die because of the lack of blood flow from the curve.This was what she is telling me is wrong with my ankle.  The muscles I’m trying to strengthen just don’t turn on.

      Now, that being said.  This is tough for me to decide because there is not instant feedback telling me it’s working.  The guy with a bad back goes and gets a correction, walks out a new man.  My ankle still hurts; ya see?
      Ankle is worse than it has been in weeks but I’ve probably been pushing too hard.  Unfortunately the soft tissue stuff on my calves and feet doesn’t have the effect it did at first; I don’t feel like I get much out of it at this point.  
      I can’t help but feel like the Chiro is simply trying to sell her services… I tend not to trust docs after several experiences with them.
      What would you do?  Sign up?  See another Chiro?  See a PT?  Fly to California and see Kelly?  I’m feeling stuck and frustrated.
    • 06/16/2016 at 5:37 pm #76451
      AvatarAnonymous
      Guest

      Get another opinion if you aren’t confident with your chiro’s plan of action.
      With an ongoing issue it can take some time before you see lasting improvements.
      Chipping away at piece by piece.

      When there is an issue with the spine the big engines of the hip and shoulder are not able to operate properly.
      Tough to compare the 2 situations you mention. Very different things can be going on with each.
      Are there still issues with the soft tissue of the foot and calf?
      May be time to reassess the soft tissue work you are doing.
      Check this episode
      Pro Episode # 21 – Pro-User Request Friday: Not Seeing The Change? You Need a Systems Approach.

      Seeing a PT can answer the question if the cause of the issue is with the joint.
      Flying to California doesn’t necessarily mean you will schedule an appoint with Kelly.
      SFCF/Mobiltiy WOD has a great staff who see patients in person as well as online consultations.
      Have you checked the MWod List to see if there is someone in your area?

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