Jen Widerstrom
Full Transcript

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Kelly: [3:34] Jen Widerstrom, welcome to The Ready State.

Juliet: [3:36] We are so excited to have you, and thank you for being here on a Friday afternoon. 

Jen: [3:41] I just want to know what took so long. I’ve been waiting. I’ve been waiting for that knock on my door, and I’m really glad it’s here.

Kelly: [3:48] Well, you know, it was like do we talk about Jen with kids or old people or — you know what I mean. We’ve had a few seasons and, truly, you wear so many hats, which is wonderful to talk with you about today, and nutrition, and how you’re helping people navigate this. But welcome and we’re thrilled and it’s about time.

Jen: [4:09] Thank you. And I’m sorry I started bitter. I’m ready now.

Juliet: [4:12] Well, and yeah, speaking of starting bitter, we were just about to have this conversation before we pressed record. But you were saying — obviously we’re recording this while we’re all still sheltering in place. But you said you had your first Coronavirus meltdown. What happened?

Kelly: [4:25] Of the day or ever?

Juliet: [4:27] Of the day? No, she said for the entire time since we’ve had —

Jen: [4:29] Entire.

Juliet: [4:29] Yeah. Which is really good.

Jen: [4:32] I think it’s good too. I just think it reminds us of how much we need each other. And it was just — you know, it sounds so stupid, but I’ve been — you know, I hate tech stress, and I’m great at coaching. That’s like what God has blessed me with. So I have someone take my coaching videos, twist them, do them, set them up, and get them into the world. And she was telling me, she’s like listen, the lighting, the angles, we really need it better. And I was like, I’m doing my best. I have no one else. There’s no one to hold the camera. And I was literally breaking down to this poor, amazing employee of mine. And she’s like okay, no, no, you’re doing great. I’m just saying if you could turn the camera or back up. And I knew, you know, it wasn’t like life threatening, but it was this whole thing. 

And I was like, what was I saying. There’s no one else, I’m all by myself, I don’t have any help. And I was like hmm, maybe this is something you’ve been feeling for a few months now and it’s really coming up, that I’m really done being on my own, I’m done trying to be strong and fortify and create new habits to keep myself busy. I am legitimately lonely. I miss my people. Like Zoom only takes you so far. And I just, I’m ready to be back with my people again, whether it’s sweating in a gym or sitting on someone’s couch. I just miss being together, you know.

Kelly: [6:07] You — thank you for letting us know that you’re not just a cyborg. Because sometimes that’s how I — we are great friends and I definitely am like someday I’m going to be strong like Jen. I got this. But that really brings up to the piece, it’s the allegory or the metaphor for the fact that it’s difficult to do it all by yourself. And what I think one of the things that we’re figuring out right now is that, man, we have taken all of the guardrails off of nutrition, we’ve taken all the guardrails off of socially eating together. This is a really interesting time. The stress, certainly. Crisis and observation is the key. We have learned a lot about our ability to cook and take care of ourselves. What are you seeing that we’re getting right these days in this interesting time? And before I ask you, where do you think we’ve lost our minds?

Jen: [7:03] So I do get to answer both sides. I think what we’re getting right is in this perspective shift on a personal level. I think you start to realize how much you don’t need what you thought you needed to be happy, you needed to like — I can’t get through the day without X or Y. And you’re realizing your strengths, you’re realizing what you thought your weaknesses are maybe aren’t your weaknesses. Like I see what we’re doing right is a self-discovery process that has been not optional, you know. And through that there’s a lot of enlightenment. And I see people — there’s a different level of gratitude. There’s a different level of opening. 

And I honestly, it’s fun to hear what people are coming out of COVID or out of this quarantine with. Instead of like focusing on, oh, I can’t do X, Y, Z anymore, it’s like through this, all these doors have opened for them, and they’re going to keep that in their life going forward. And I think it’s — you know, I saw today on social media, everyone’s like — and I’ve done podcasts as well saying what’s 2021 going to be. And I go, are we not — are we skipping 2020? Like what happened? And a lot of what I’ve been seeing is like 2020 is not a waste. This is part of it, you know. You don’t get blue skies, you don’t make mountains with blue skies, I always say. You do need this bit of a torture chamber and this discomfort for growth. Without that kind of turbulence, we don’t have these — we don’t get to see the cracks in our armor and we don’t get to grow from them. So I don’t know. I think that’s what we’re getting right. That’s a very long-winded, not articulate answer. But —

Kelly: [8:44] We’ll take it. That’s good.

Juliet: [8:44] Yeah, you know, yeah, I think, man, it is a mixed bag. One thing I’ve noticed, and this is really superficial and not emotional at all, but just our sort of family burn rate, and this sort of relates to nutrition, but just how often I think before I think we were like grabbing lunch out and getting coffee and eating out at restaurants. And that’s one of those things I’m super curious to see if we just spin back up into our old habits or whether we realize, you know, I don’t know, it’s just this first time where I keep looking at my bank account thinking, man, my burn rate has gone way down because I’m just not out and about all the time. And you know, will we pick that back up or keep cooking at home? Will everybody keep cooking at home? I’m sort of interested. What do you think about that?

Jen: [9:25] That’s interesting. One, I think people are racing back to restaurants, mostly out of I think that social element. But I will say, you know, it’s almost fitness or cooking or this reconfiguration towards healthier pacing I’ll call it, is scary because you’re kind of afraid of messing up. And I’ve been equating it to learning a language because I’ve been trying to relearn Spanish again during my quarantine. And I had it and I lost it and I was like why. And I realized that a lot of fear and the struggle behind learning a language, people can’t get over the fear of messing up. I don’t want to sound off, I don’t want to get the accent wrong, I don’t want to say hot dog when I meant to ask for the bathroom. And so there’s so much fear around proceeding forward that you actually don’t proceed. 

And I think health and fitness is pretty similar. And we didn’t have the choice to be afraid. We had to train inside, we had to cook at home. We didn’t have a choice. So the fear was removed and the imminence of just taking care of yourself and taking care of your family became front and center. And so with that fear out of the way I think things have opened up for people and they realize their capability and that’s what’s making them fluent in the language of health and fitness. And so yes, they’re running back to restaurants, but I think they’ve got more tools in their toolbelt now. 

Kelly: [10:53] I think that’s elegant. I know that every high performance group we work with and some of the best metrics of understanding successful kids and good family units are just eating together. You have to eat food together. That is a miracle. Okay, so we jumped in. You didn’t sort of arrive at this pattern recognition, expert level idea of seeing the travesty and the good things that people are doing and not doing. Can you tell us how you got here, just briefly, and I know it’s a terrible question. But you are sort of a badass.

Jen: [11:32] Ask your question a different way, Kelly.

Juliet: [11:34] Yeah. I thought that was a little — I was watching him and I was like I have no idea what he’s saying.

Jen: [11:38] I like it. Keep going.

Juliet: [11:40] Here’s what. You are a coach and athlete yourself.

Kelly: [11:45] All American.

Juliet: [11:46] Yeah. And basically a total badass on a variety of levels. But how did you get here? You know, and maybe just like how did you start in your professional life? What was your trajectory? Where are you now?

Jen: [11:57] I guess the real long and short is I’m from Chicago, went to school at University of Kansas, “Rock Chalk, Jayhawk.” And my degree was in sports administration. I initially went for sports medicine and found that less interesting. But I was always sports interested. Did sports growing up. I was never close to a state champion but I was always like the pretty good athlete that was consistent. So I was a captain but never getting a gold medal, if that makes sense. 

Juliet: [12:25] It does. It does.

Jen: [12:26] You know what I mean? But I put the effort in and that goes all the way. It always goes all the way. So when I got out of college, I knew I wanted to work for like a sports team, work for a sports agency, or even go back to KU, work for my alma mater. And in the meantime, I was just drinking my face off bartending in Chicago. I always joke I had a blast. I don’t know what anybody else did in their early 20’s. But I mean I don’t have a cent to show for it. I had so much fun. And from what I remember, it was a great —

Kelly: [12:58] I think you are honestly describing Juliet and I to a T. But raft guiding, kayaking.

Juliet: [13:03] Except for we were raft guiding. But same thing.

Kelly: [13:06] Still poor.

Jen: [13:08] You know, and I’m so glad I did it. I’m a pretty careful plotted person and this was a time when I kind of let go some of that rigidity. And you know, when we talked earlier about kind of doing things alone, I think I do that out of control. And that was a good time in my life where I got to see things were a little bit less controlled and I had a blast and no one died. Everything’s okay. So anyway, started fitness modeling because I found out I could make a night’s worth of bartending in a couple hours in a sports bra. And that’s where the avalanche of television and the sequence of events that I had never planned on and had no intention of doing kind of happened. And so and I think what happened is when I did American Gladiators, this was back over 12 years ago in 2008 when Hulk Hogan was the host, and —

Juliet: [13:53] It was so awesome.

Jen: [13:53] Oh, I mean right? I couldn’t believe I was picked. Everybody was a professional fighter, rodeo clown, stunt double, and I was like, bartender. I like did a little D1 college throwing. But I don’t know. I did have the smallest outfit so that might have been part of my entry. But it started me down a sequence I didn’t plan on and I think that sometimes that some of the greatest gifts that we have, I did not plan on going on the show, I did not plan on that show getting canceled. I did not plan on living in LA, being stuck with a $1,500 a month rent. Like what do I do? And I’m like I’ve got to find a fucking job. I don’t know what I’m doing now. 

I think that’s where I started to find fitness in a different way because previously the point of the arrow for me was performance always. You work out so you throw far. You work out so there’s a performance. Even on Gladiators, it was yes, I wanted to like, you know, do well on the performance of the events. But a lot of the performance for Gladiators was how you look. So everything was a cause and react to those performance-based kind of goals. 

And then I needed a job and started working at a gym teaching group classes. And that’s my true love, is coaching and working with just everyday humans. And I started to realize the power of that because it’s just a different language. And if you’re not moving, you don’t know what I’m talking about. But it’s a pretty special thing when you can see someone come into the room standing taller than they did the week before. I’ve said it before, but I noticed even the choice of the outfit, someone that was maybe wearing their husband’s shirt and old tights from like college days, get a new outfit from a store and it’s a brighter color, it’s a pattern. Or they give you a song, this is when CDs were happening, here’s a playlist if you want music options. You start to see development of the human that’s —

Kelly: [16:00] I can completely relate to that. Totally. 

Jen: [16:00] That’s parallel to the development of — yeah. Exactly. So I think that’s what happened and I think because I was in LA it was that trajectory of TV. And eventually, as most of the world knows, I got into Biggest Loser and through that door opening, it’s a platform to write a book, do other television for other shows. And it’s been a really great experience. But I think I will tell you the only reason I’m here here is because a lot of what I thought were these peaks in my life ended, and I realized these are not endpoints. 

Like Gladiators I thought oh my God, I could do this forever. And that golden egg went away and I was devastated. But it created this massive growth opportunity for me. Same with Biggest Loser. We’re going, I’m king of the castle, I’m feeling amazing. And then I’m like oh, that’s over, now what. And you start to get to identify what you’re pinning yourself to. And for a long time, and Kelly — I was with you the weekend I was struggling over this summer, when I wasn’t chosen for Biggest Loser, and I tied so much of my what I felt I brought to the world, what made me different, to Biggest Loser. And I liked Biggest Loser, to be honest, because it separated me from a lot of the Instagram trash. Sorry. That’s just reality. It put me on a big show. It helped me grow my following. It made me feel different, special, powerful. 

And so when that was removed, I also took those qualities and let that go with Biggest Loser. So then I’m like am I not special and powerful. Am I not offering something on Instagram that other people aren’t. And it’s like no, all those things are still true, but when you assign it to something outside yourself, I realized that I needed Biggest Loser to go away so I could actually be in a place where I was coming from within, from who I am, and you know, kind of not cheating off of everybody else’s paper and really deciding what I think, what I feel, and how I want to help the world. So how did I get here? I mean I don’t know. Yelling at people right now like this. But mostly just showing up, figuring it out, and having my eyes open to notice the difference when something’s really a win, or if something’s just part of the journey along the way.

Juliet: [18:18] So what I really heard in that story, which I loved, by the way, and it was a perfect answer to that question —

Jen: [18:23] Thank you.

Juliet: [18:24] Was that you’re someone who has a growth mindset. I don’t know why, when you were talking about that, but it’s sort of at each of these big turns in your life where you maybe thought it was a failure or not turned out the way you wanted to, you sort of took it as an opportunity to grow as a human. Where do you think that comes from? Is it like a childhood thing? Is it from being a college or high school athlete? I mean what do you think the root of that is? Why do you have a growth mindset?

Jen: [18:50] I don’t think I had them in the moment though. I have to call myself out because I was not like I’m going to use this opportunity. I was fucking pissed. I was angry every time. I was totally victim. And I think it’s when you have something, it’s taken away, and you’re down here somewhere in the dark, pissed off, blaming the world, where I could choose to stay there, feel sorry for myself, and not understand why nobody wants to spend time with me, right? Or spend the time alone and decide what’s really going on and what’s really not wrong, but what’s really bothering me. And so instead of getting angry or getting victimy, I just started to get curious. I think my curiosity is what brought me —

Kelly: [19:36] Love that.

Jen: [19:36] Into more of a growth mindset. And what helps me now, Juliet, in answer to that question, is I think it’s not like I was just born with this. I know I’ve got a great work ethic. My parents taught me great pillars and great morals. But when you do it, you get better at it. It’s like practicing squats and doing, I don’t know, throwing a baseball. You do it the first time and it feels kind of weird. You’re like oh, that was awkward. But it kind of worked out. And then you do it again, and then you do it again. And I’ve been in that place that’s low and uncomfortable and come through it many times, whether it was growing up as a kid, whether it was high school sports, college sports, being bullied, whatever it was, you come through that cycle. 

And if you’re paying attention, you realize you’re pretty darn good at getting through that stuff. And that’s why now, and I’m not perfect, but when I’m in a place where it doesn’t make sense or I’m frustrated or starting to really get that icky, resentful, why me feeling, I go oh, ding, ding, what did I bump into again? I remember you. Okay. Let’s set the table for one and figure this out. And I think that’s where now that I’m interested in when that happens is what puts me into that growth trajectory. But I don’t think it was an automatic skill.

Kelly: [20:52] Wow. Thank you.

Jen: [20:54] Sorry. If you guys pull my string, I will —

Kelly: [20:56] No, it’s so good. What I love and what I hear is that, you know, changing behavior and changing consciousness is difficult, and you have become quite an expert at helping people change those external drivers into internal drivers, which is really what we feel like this season has been about, is one of the keystones of being human is eating food. But more importantly, I don’t even think it’s about that. It’s about people don’t feel good in their bodies. They don’t love their bodies. And it’s all driven by some external ideal for what I should look like and how I should look like an age 47-year-old bald guy. I mean what do I look like? You know, every once in a while the photos come up on the screen. I’m like, Juliet, delete that one. She’s like, what are you talking about. I’m like, just look at that one. I have seven rolls on the back of my neck. That is not cute. 

And you know, one of the pieces that you’re just so good at on the web and in your teaching and your writing, is this sort of reframing of conversation about internal guideposts. What do you think? Why do people struggle so much with food? And how — I mean I have never wanted to touch that pillar. And I have these friends who were like you, who just were like oh, third rail, let me lick that thing, and really wade in. And I’m like holy moly, I just don’t want — I’m so grateful that you guys do this heavy lifting. So the first part of the question, if I’m clear, is how did you get to really appreciate that nutrition is so important. And why did you come to believe what you did about the way you’re helping people understand their food choices?

Jen: [22:34] Well, yeah. I think because eating is a very emotional experience. It’s a driver that brings — I mean you said it, Juliet, you know, having dinners together, having the sense of this there’s no culture, skin color, continent that doesn’t understand the breaking of bread, right? So I think it’s built into our DNA as humans to share, to give, to join, to unify in that way. But there’s a couple layers here. And you don’t have to be 400 pounds to understand this feeling. But at the end of the day, and these are words for people I’ve worked with, you’ve got multiple kids, multiple stressors, shit going on at work, maybe you’re worried about your relationship, maybe there’s financial stressors. What is the thing that is always going to be there, that’s going to be consistent, that’s going to soothe you, that is going to make you feel a sense of love? 

Even like when you’re me, by myself, I’m missing my people. And food makes me feel like community again. It’s soothing for me. So I don’t know how you can have the conversation about health, whether it’s weight loss, weight gain, you know, wherever you’re at, if you’re not talking about food. And I just found it as something that was you know, it’s not my go-to conversation to begin with somebody, but it’s impossible to ignore. And I think that what most of the fitness industry has done and especially back in the early 2000’s, is try to tell you, whether it’s low fat or all these crazy diets, and the low calorie and the crazy fasting and all this stuff. 

And instead of just addressing it their normal way, I think people look at me or look at my poster, see the magazine covers I’ve done, and don’t think I don’t have conversations in my head about food every day. I almost order out pizza probably three to four times a week. I’m not exaggerating, right? And then you think, okay, but I know what I’ve got going on this week. I want to make it, I really want to enjoy it. I have to talk myself out of it every time because I love food. And food is fun for me. And I enjoy it. But what I’m not going to enjoy is overeating, not feeling good when I try to get up, whether you’re working out and moving and trying to be effective in your day, bad fuel in your body really distorts your ability to really think clearly as well with grogginess and all kinds of other things that we don’t have to go into. 

But to me, I feel better mentally when I’m doing that. And then physically, if I’m eating pizza four times a week, the weight will gain. And I’m telling you, it’s much easier for me or you guys, like we’re in a position where we’re happy with our bodies physically and we’re kind of protecting what we’ve got. It’s far easier to get there then protect it than to try to fight and not know how high Kilimanjaro goes. You’re like how much further do I get until I’m happy. And a lot of times what we’re being fed is you’re never going to be happy because you need this magic pill or this magic Bowflex or this magic trainer. And to me, I always say, if you don’t graduate from Team Jen, I haven’t done my job. My job is to give you the tools, get you going, and so you can feel good and sustained on your own. And a lot of this industry doesn’t teach that because if I do that, then you’re no longer giving me your money. And that’s where this has gotten to be kind of a sickening cycle in our industry. So I think I answered most of your first question.

Kelly: [26:16] Perfect.

Juliet: [26:16] Yeah. And perfect. And thank you for saying that. And actually, that’s the perfect segue because as you know, we’re doing this entire season on sort of nutrition trends.

Kelly: [26:25] And strategies.

Juliet: [26:25] And strategies. And I think the back story is, A, we know a lot of people who are thinking about this and talking about this. And then B, I think everybody is sort of searching for something. I’m sure you have the same thing, where I have friends who come up to me and they’re like what do you think about intermittent fasting, and should I do Keto, and should I do this and do that. And what I believe ultimately is that there’s not one right approach. 

And unfortunately especially if you’re someone who’s trying to lose weight, it’s probably a bit of an experiment, you know, what works for you, what can you manage, what things. For me, the Paleo diet’s hard because I love popcorn. So I created my own diet called Paleo plus popcorn. But you know, I think not one thing works for everybody.

Kelly: [27:04] And it’s got to be a moving target based on your stressors and —

Juliet: [27:08] Yeah, and your age and

Kelly: [27:08] Juliet is 47. Her body does not blow through the cookies as well.

Juliet: [27:13] Yeah. But what I wanted to —

Jen: [27:15] Thanks for that, Kelly.

Juliet: [27:15] Segue into the question is I actually learned about carb cycling from you. And I will say for me it has been the most effective way for me to rein it in when I do go through which I did during COVID. The first few weeks of COVID our daughter Georgia baked a cake every single day and I definitely was like wow, okay, I’m plus five pounds, I need to zip it up. And when I need to zip it up, I revert to carb cycling, which I learned from you. So I just could you sort of explain what it is, what it means, is it how you eat? Just sort of give us like a carb cycling tutorial.

Jen: [27:53] Okay. So I think what you’ve said is perfect. You know, everybody is different down to what foods feel good in my system, allergies, preferences, whatever. And I think why carb cycling became so important to me is because there’s so much freedom. You can be vegan, you can be Paleo, you can be Paleo plus popcorn, you know. You can eat whatever you choose on there. But what I’ve done is I’ve designed basically a spectrum for your macros where you have high carb and low carb days. And the long and short is there’s a lot of people trying to sell you that you don’t need carbohydrates or they’re bad or they make you fat. And it’s one of the most important — I mean I love to say one of the most important macros. Well, there’s only three. There’s three macros. I’d like to keep them all, if I may. And so what starts to happen is we’re undereating in a macro resource that’s huge for helping with — people think carbohydrates for muscles or whatever, or they make you fat.

Kelly: [28:57] When you say macros, explain that for our people who may not know what a macro is.

Jen: [ 29:00] Thank you. So macro is when you break down when you eat a piece of food, there’s macronutrients, which are proteins, fats, and carbohydrates. Those are your three tiers of macros. And so whenever you hear someone say macro counting, they’re basically trying to associate what they’re eating, and they look at what’s in what they’re eating, which is why carb cycling is so powerful. And then you can kind of have an idea of how many fats, carbs and proteins you’re eating throughout the day for an achieved goal. 

So essentially what happens though is with carbohydrates, your liver I think needs about 80 grams for optimal function. And your liver then takes it to your brain, different parts of your body, it’s critical for your vital organs. And then from that tier, you go into basically your muscles. And your muscles require, depending on your activity, your size and shape, between 200 to 400 grams of carbohydrates. And it’s only after then when you’ve given your body too much energy, right, a unit of energy is a calorie, so  you’ve gotten too many of those carbohydrates where your liver’s all set, your vital organs are set, your muscles are set, but you’re still eating Georgia’s cake every day like Juliet was, now we’re spilling over into fat storage because your body’s just saying, oh, shit, okay, we have extra fuel, no big deal, I’m just going to hold onto it until Juliet uses it. That’s it. Your body’s just got your back. And that’s what starts to happen. 

So going with carb cycling, what I do is you do a high carb day which means — which is based on your total daily energy expenditure. You find you get that number calorically of what your body needs to run in a day. And I assign a higher carb day so you have higher carbs and lower fats with higher protein. And then once we get that influx of carbohydrates, which we need like we just talked about, then we go to two to three low carb days. So then our carbohydrates are lower but not gone. And then we focus on protein and fat as your energy source for three days. So we’ve got this great oscillating opportunity where we’re giving your body the carbohydrates it needs, we’re letting your body take the two or three days to use them so you’re not storing them as fat, and on top of it, you get to source or choose how you want to get those macros into  your body. 

So if you guys got to the end of your week, and you’re like oh man, okay, it’s a high carb day, I know I have 200 carbohydrates, this many fats. It’s like playing Tetris. It’s like oh, I’m going to have pasta and popcorn tonight. And you can plan it into your system because your body’s seeing the food as fuel, not as, oh, it’s pasta or cake. So that’s really the system around it. I will offer it’s a little bit frustrating in the first couple of days. And Juliet, I’m wondering if you had that kind of experience with that because you do have to track what you’re eating. And for a lot of people, it’s discouraging or frustrating to be like oh my God, I’m only eating 50 grams of protein a day, and I’m eating 300 grams of fat or 400 grams of — and you didn’t know. But that’s what’s so powerful, is that by doing this process, you really get to learn what’s in what you’re eating. And the number one thing I hear is I’ve never felt so good, I’ve never had so much energy, and then people without even working out will lose eight to ten pounds in my challenges just because they changed their macro counts around. So —

Juliet: [32:29] Yeah, and my experience with the tracking, I mean I always do, and I would love actually to speak about this after I make this comment, but I don’t find the tracking to be too onerous. I always wonder if tracking any food is falling into a disordered eating universe, which is sort of my question for you. I always wonder what point have you crossed into being slightly disordered if you’re tracking everything you’re eating. But what I will say for me is that, and I don’t know if you’re like this, but I think if you — I have carb cycled enough now that I don’t need to perfectly track. I can pretty much guess now. I can do a pretty darn good guess of like, okay, if today I’m supposed to eat 87 grams of carbs and this many grams of protein, I can do a pretty good job guessing. So it’s not like a life sentence of tracking, is what I’ve found.

Jen: [33:17] Yes. Exactly.

Juliet: [33:17] And then the other thing I would say is that, and maybe this is just gaming the system, but one of the things that worked so well for me is that I’m like you, I do want to go out to dinner with my friends and maybe have a beer. You know, I don’t want to be a weirdo when I show up at someone’s house and not want to eat what they serve because I’m on some weird diet. And one of the things that’s so nice about carb cycling is you can always plan it so the day you have a big social function is the day when you’re going to blow it out from a carb standpoint and you don’t have to worry about it, and you can still sort of be like a normal person in this society, which for me is really important, especially as a mom. So anyway, those were a lot of statements. Not a question. But what do you — I mean you know is there —

Jen: [33:55] No. I mean I’m with you. I see carb cycling as like a set of lanes. You’ve got like this super highway. And you asked earlier, this is how I eat. And I don’t track every day anymore either. Like you’re able to eyeball it. You know, look at your nutrition information. Oh, about 20 grams of carbs. I’m like okay, I’m kind of adding, kind of knowing. You’ve got to think like with carb cycling, you’re not just saying oh, this is like The Rock and he’s just getting all of the he does like the biggest plate of crap food ever. It’s not that, right? This is like you are in the fast lane of carbohydrates, and you can go as fast as you want in that lane as long as you’re staying to the speed limit that I’ve given you on carbs, right? 

So it’s like you have these different speeds which you get to play at in carb cycling, and you plan for it. And the weird thing is you can’t mess it up. So if you go 30 carbs over on your carb blowout, whatever, you’re fine. You did it, you’re good the next day. You’re back on the carbs. You’re in a rhythm. But what it creates, and what I like the most, is this personal accountability because you know. You know what you’ve got going on. You’ve moved the days, right? You said I’ve got this party, I’ve got this thing. You can adapt your life. Sorry, let me change that sentence. You can adapt your eating to your life versus the other way around. Because it’s very hard to be on these strict diets, as you said. And then you have to try to like explain it to people. And it can be very disorienting in your group of friends and you feel strange. 

I will tell you, nine times out of ten people are looking to be inspired and they just need one person in that group of friends to take the leap and say oh yeah, I’m actually doing this and this is what I’m working on. And they’re excited and they see you do better, and then you become that leader of helping your friends. So it’s very livable, it’s very doable. And then like you said, once you kind of get the hang of what you know it looks like, you get your high carb day, your low carb day, and then you just kind of get to feel it out. And if you spend time where you’ve gained weight, whether it’s just been like a trip or it’s just I didn’t want to think about food for a couple weeks, you can go right back to your numbers, track for a week, and I guarantee you, you’ll be back. The weight, whatever drifted up, will drift right back down. And it’s a really great reset button for anybody that needs it.

Kelly: [36:08] You know, I live with a person who lives this way, right? Jen Light here in the house. She’s Team Jen. And there are sort of three things that jump up, which I think we’ve heard across the spectrum. One is that you only ever — few things. You only ever talk about whole foods. So you’re obsessed with whole foods. Juliet doesn’t eat bars, she doesn’t eat shakes. Sometimes in the evening she’ll crush some extra protein with ice as like a you know, it’s been 100 degrees here and I see you do that sometimes, you know, for satiety. I don’t think people are aware of what they consume. I think it’s shocking. We have such access to such calorically dense foods. And people are just shocked for the first time. They’re like whoa, whoa, whoa. I had no idea that that bagel was — I’m good for a week. It’s just a lot of carbohydrates. A quarter of a bagel is very different than a whole bagel. But I just don’t think people have ever been taught sort of how much energy is in these foods. 

Jen: [37:09] Yeah. But that’s the exciting part. That’s the trial and error of this process. It’s not going to be perfect but you’re going to start to learn. So to me, I think of it as like you’re driving the same way to work every day and then you find a shortcut. You’re like, I didn’t even know this was here.

Kelly: [37:22] That’s right. That’s right. So just the consciousness, and I think that’s really a big deal, just bringing the awareness. And I think when we’ve even seen like the old school zone, which we’re not talking about, like anytime. Like one of our friends has the 800 Gram Challenge, just trying to eat more — and I don’t think people realize that they weren’t eating any vegetables and fruits or eating micronutrient dense foods. And then all of a sudden, they’re like whoa, I wasn’t eating any, and now I’m eating a little bit more. So the change in awareness is a big deal. 

Thirdly is that I appreciate that there’s a little bit of novelty and variation in the strategy. And so Juliet has some days where — and I don’t ever see Juliet wanting. So let me be clear. You don’t starve yourself. You’re training hard. I don’t see a dip in your performance. Although, I did catch Juliet out on the end of a low carb cycle day, like a few days, and we did a brutal, brutal mountain bike climb. It was brutal. Like brutal. And Juliet’s like, I think I’m dying. And I was like oh, you’re out of energy.

Juliet: [38:15] You need a carb.

Kelly: [38:15] And I was like well, don’t worry, you’re having a great adaptation response right now. But you know, and then finally, I’ll just add that I suspect that human beings never were supposed to be hooked up to an insulin drip clock and that variety is actually probably baked in there. And what we’ve seen is there are these trends right now like Keto or carnivore or what is it, the Lion Diet now, right, and Plant Paradox, where they’re extreme elimination diets. And the guardrails are, I can eat one kind of food. 

And what I do appreciate about the way I watch Juliet eat is that she is pigging out on tons of leafy vegetables and greens and there’s just so much variety in food and it’s not so austere. So there is something here around that. And I think — and let me just say the proof is always in the pudding. You know, Juliet’s performance is great. I think you feel better. You’re like look, I’m down. I’m like you look exactly the same. Hot. But you know.

Juliet: [39:22] You know, I cannot overemphasize though, and maybe it’s just the way I was raised, and I’m assuming knowing you, Jen, that you were raised this way, but I’m also a polite person. So if you invited me over to your house and made a huge pan of homemade, lovely lasagna, I would sooner die than not eat it because I don’t eat carbs, right? 

Jen: [39:43] Correct.

Juliet: [39:44] To me, my need to be a nice, kind, polite human far outweighs any diet that I’m doing. And again, this is one of the reasons that this works so well for me because, you know. And I also think too, you know, one of the things that I so appreciate about you, and even you mentioning that you eat pizza, is that we really are kind of 80/20 eaters. We do love to have a pizza or something, I mean, right? Food is fun.

Jen: [40:10] Food is so — I mean I’m literally drinking a beer as we do this podcast, you know. It’s one of those things where — and I think it goes down to somewhat the conditioning we’ve experienced in this wellness industry. Like even my good friend and mentor, Adam Bornstein, you know, they posted pizza, and they asked him do you actually eat the pizza. And he was like —

Juliet: [40:36] Yeah.

Jen: [40:37] Yeah. And we thought it was so funny. Like of course. And I think there’s just — I mean I think it’s come with the dissociation that’s come with any social media, what you see are a combination of — I mean genetically gifted people, me included. I mean if I showed you guys a picture of my parents in the 70’s. you’d be like oh, that’s why you have those quads, got it. Like you know, I realize I’ve kind of won the genetic lottery. But what starts to happen is people are not posting really what’s real. And so there becomes this trickle down effect of why don’t I look like that. I mean I’ve worked with professional athletes that are crushing life and they’re like showing me the Instagram like — and I air quote trainer/model — people that they want to look like. I’m like are you nuts. You know what I mean? To me, what is beautiful is strong, athletic, capable. And I’m telling you, to be those three things, most of the time you don’t have the shredded six pack. It’s not sustainable unless what I see is — and it’s really only in the CrossFit world where they’re doing this high level of volume at all times. 

I mean I love — I’m one of the few women that I’ve seen as muscular as I am that has natural breasts. I’ve still got a booty. And it’s because I’m eating enough to sustain a female form. And that’s what women — I would love to start to encourage them down that road. I don’t know if it’s a return or it’s progress. I don’t know. Juliet, I don’t know, you’re a generation ahead of me. It’s like yes, strong, but like if you didn’t have body fat on you, you couldn’t make those climbs. You couldn’t be an Olympian. I just don’t see how it’s possible. And women are wondering why at the end of the day they can’t keep up with their kids. It’s like, well, you’re undereating to try and get abs that don’t exist in reality. You know, so I don’t know. To me, clearly I get worked up about it. I want to bring us back to this reality of center and what real strength is and what real beauty is, and start to celebrate it in ourselves.

Kelly: [42:59] And I just want to highlight for a second that you come out of an elite athlete performance model. You’re currently working, coaching elite athletes. It’s not like your modifieds aren’t there. And just want to point that out. But also, I want to appreciate that you’ve been on the other side of the uber Hollywood camera ready dysfunction. And so you’re one of my few friends who I think has really seen both sides, not who’s just mired in health, which is important, or not just mired in performance. But also, of everyone we’ve talked to, I mean Stan Efferding of course is another good example of someone who has the eye on the performance model. But his model is someone is a bodybuilder, right, or a physique competitor, and that’s still not the same thing as the dysfunctional eating that we see through Hollywood, through Insta. 

So what’s interesting about sort of this greater conversation is I really appreciate that you’ve created flexibility and you’ve created easy accountability, and with an eye on that aesthetics do matter, right? That’s usually what people are — I mean we have some friends who are trying to get their health in order because it’s not working and they’ve had blood panels and health checkups and they’ve gotten scares. And I also appreciate that you are speaking to both sides. We have a lot of friends in nutrition who aren’t necessarily coaches around healthy movement behavior. And I’ll say that I’ll exercise with you, you are a savage. I was in a powerlifting contest with you, I know you can pull.

Jen: [44:34] Yeah. That’s right. That’s the day I met you.

Kelly: [44:37] That’s right. So can you talk a little bit, just because I think you are in this unique perspective of being a coach and that includes nutrition, but sometimes we don’t wear those clothes. Is it important if people want to change their body composition, they also need to exercise? Or do we need to focus — people who are interested in trying to change their body composition, do they need to just, hey, let’s eat first then move second? How would you or is it both?

Jen: [45:08] I mean the gateway drug to physical change is people want to work out. They’re more inclined to move than give up what they want to eat. And so to me, it’s kind of like you know, you  — and I will tell you, when you’re moving, okay, do you get done with a workout and you feel great, and you’re like you know what, let’s go crush some Denny’s. Like no one ever. It’s like no. You’re like I feel good. It’s crazy how smart your body is. It’s like you want some sort of water, you want some sort of good — you want a carbohydrate but like a good one. It’s funny what your brain tells you you want. It’s never I want donuts. You want this hearty meal. You want to put something good in your body. So I think moving actually helps assist the better choices. 

Kelly: [46:09] Hmm, never heard that before in that way. I really appreciate that. That’s really different from what I’ve ever heard.

Jen: [46:12] Yeah, I mean test it. Everybody listening, test it, honestly. Get out and what are you in the mood for.

Kelly: [46:18] Well, I’m trying to keep with Juliet so I usually feel a little sick afterwards and definitely don’t want to eat.

Jen: [46:22] I’ve yet to go on the bike ride. Although, I still want to go on that one with you, Juliet. 

Juliet: [46:26] Yeah, we’re doing that.

Jen: [46:28] So I think you have to look at this as this is a behavioral, emotional decision when it comes to food. Now I have seen people have a lot of success just with food who don’t have time to bring in movement yet. But I think if you’re moving first, food gets easier. Because the other thing is too, okay, same scenario, you crush the workout, am I about to erase that workout and that effort towards my goal physically for a Chipotle? I don’t think so. No way. I’m like a man, I want to put something good in my body. 

And that’s why the physical aesthetic — I have been at cover shoots and have photographers tell me is there anything you can do with your stomach, and been really hard on me. I have been in moments where I really, I was like oh my God, do I need to lose weight, like really freaked out about it. So I understand the power of aesthetics. And I believe that carrots work. Whether it’s a wedding, whether it’s a beach trip, whether it’s just summer, whether it’s just I’m single, I want to look good when I get naked. Whatever that becomes, I want — use it.

Kelly: [47:34] I appreciate that.

Jen: [47:35] Like seriously. Pride works.

Kelly: [47:37] Yeah, Juliet and I, even week to week, we say what are we living for this week, you know.

Jen: [47:40] Yes. Yes.

Kelly: [47:41] And that really — I mean right now —

Juliet: [47:43] Right now, it’s tough.

Kelly: [47:44] It’s tougher. But we do have — I really think that’s an important idea. I think that carrot idea has really focused people’s behavior. And having a goal that’s external, not I’m going to hit this weight that means nothing. I think that’s —

Jen: [47:58] Yeah. And it really should be how you’re feeling, how you’re looking, and that’s where I get to do a lot on the carb cycling because when you start, people are like I’ve only lost four pounds. But they see the pictures and they see the body composition shift, it’s like ah, sweet, I’m there. And there’s something exciting about seeing change. And people get very impatient. They’re like I’ve been doing this for four weeks, what’s going on. I’m like well, you’ve been doing it that way for 40 years. It will take some time.

Kelly: [48:25] I squatted twice this month. Why aren’t I strong?

Jen: [48:27] And that’s the thing, there’s an impatience, expectation that we’ve just kind of adapted as I think we’ve technologically gotten more advanced, which is amazing for so many reasons. Through medicine, through sciences, through everything. But when it comes to fitness, our bodies are still doing the — you know, we’re Amish, we’ve still got to make butter by hand kind of a thing. Our bodies take time. And they need to trust you because if it doesn’t trust you it’s going to be like I don’t know if Kelly’s going to feed me again, I’m going to hold onto whatever he gives me. And they start storing. So there has to be that level of trust and consistency over time. 

And I think that, like I said, part of the carrots are physical. I want to fit in said dress, right? Or I want to make sure I go to my reunion looking great. But I will tell you, for me, when I stopped making it just about the physical and made it about who I am as a woman, like emotionally, I realized that that was the greater carrot. So if I am eating poorly, I’m giving up on my workouts or not even showing up to them, I become a very — I am not the wonderful woman you see before you today, right? Like I become agitated, somewhat meaner, shorter. I’m insecure. I’m in a relationship, I’m not wanting to be sexual. And I’m finding every excuse to not be in that position with my guy or blame it on him, right? Like I am not, I am not a fun time. 

And I thought, hmmm, that’s what I’m fighting for, this woman right here, right, who’s open, interested, intelligent, outgoing, wants to dance when music comes on. Versus all closed off and angry and shut down. Because I know I can’t keep that up. And I see a lot of people living that way. And that’s for me the kind of carrot as far as Jen the persona. Because the waistline will follow. If I make good decisions to feel like the best that I do, my body’s going to be banging. And I don’t have to worry about that part anymore.

Juliet: [50:34] I think that’s just so important, for women especially, who are more often the ones who are struggling, struggling, struggling, to try to lose weight. One of the things, one of the most influential ever nutrition articles I’ve ever read is a John Berardi piece called “The Cost of Being Lean.” Anyway, I’ll share it with you. It’s one of my favorite things ever.

Jen: [50:54] Oh good. I’m writing it down. Yeah.

Juliet: [50:55] Yeah. But it’s just about this idea that you can have the six pack abs and be super lean and have 10 percent body fat, but often the cost of that is your social life and your emotional health and all these other things that I think people — you know, if you really step away from it, I think most people would rather be plus ten pounds and have healthy, happy relationships and have fun and have a social life than be so jacked and lean that they can take the Instagram photos. And so anyway, I really appreciate you saying that because I think that’s such a big part of what we’re missing here in this giant goal to diet down and be lean. And I think it’s so important that that’s part of your program. 

Jen: [51:38] Thank you. And I’m just laughing. You’re going to save a lot of money on Botox too. Like the amount that’s happening in our world where like when you lose it all, when you get that lean, I mean people start to wrinkle out and they don’t understand why. I just, most people if they just gained five pounds of fluid, of fat, ugh, the life they’d have. But they get stuck on a number or they get stuck on a dress size or they get stuck on a former self. Number one thing I hear, and it’s mostly from women, it’s like, well, in high school I… and it’s like whoa, whoa, whoa. I mean in high school, I’m trying to think, I had to have been at the most 120, high 20’s, low 30’s. For me to get to that weight again —

Kelly: [52:33] Oh, you’d just lose a leg. It’s fine.

Juliet: [52:34] Yeah. Yeah. Just chop off one of your legs.

Kelly: [52:38] I mean that’s what it’s got to be right there.

Jen: [52:40] I mean my body now as a woman, and Juliet, let me know what you think, my body older is the best I’ve ever seen it, yes? My knees make sounds now that it didn’t used to, which was weird when it happened. My neck has some arthritis. I’ve got some cellulite. But I have like muscle density and strength that I’ve never experienced. I just feel full. I feel like my hair’s better. Everything about my womanhood has gotten better in each decade. And the thought of being smaller and weaker and less capable than I am now, it feels like such a backwards step. And I think I also had to wrap my head around the Jen that’s now versus who I used to be or looked like.

Kelly: [53:27] Oh yeah, Jen, post Division I thrower. I can totally see it. So you know, one of the things I just want to shout out because I am in a cohort of men who are approaching 50, and one of the things that I have seen universally in my community is that the guys are suddenly like, oh my God, it’s not working. I think men had a little bit more —

Jen: [53:49] Do you mean your penis?

Kelly: [53:51] That’s part of it.

Juliet: [53:52] Probably that too.

Kelly: [53:53] Absolutely. 

Jen: [53:53] Okay. Let’s be clear. 

Kelly: [53:55] I think my diet isn’t working. I don’t feel very svelte anymore. And what we saw was men I think were able to hide or buffer. They didn’t have the social pressure, the social cost. It was okay to have dad bod. I mean can you imagine if we were like mom bod, they ought to celebrate mom bod. Everybody’s like mmm, that’s never going to happen. And then so I do want to give credence to the fact that I have suddenly seen men have to throw it in reverse with a lot of momentum. 

And it’s difficult to make massive change, especially so many behaviors and coping behaviors around drinking and self-soothing and people at kind of the peak of their power. And then I also just want to say that I want to appreciate that I hear you and I think of you as an athlete and struggle with — there was a weight where I was my favorite. Because I’ve talked to a lot of athletes and one of my favorite things to say is, what was your favorite weight.

Juliet: [54:46] Your favorite weight. 

Kelly: [54:46] And 100 percent of the athletes I know are like ah, and they just spit it out in two seconds. It was when they were a college gymnast, that was my favorite weight. When I played at this weight, at this height, or in the NFL. You know, Mr. Rogers had a favorite weight. And then he would weigh himself and swim a little bit more and eat a little bit less, and eat a little bit more and swim a little bit less. And he kept that favorite weight. And so it is easy to get stuck into this. And then to see people revert to the behaviors that got them to that favorite weight in the first place a long time ago, even though they’re cutting off their nose to spite their face. So I appreciate that.

Jen: [55:24] It’s funny. You say favorite weight. And Juliet, I want to know your tipping point, your breaking point. I miss the time when I wasn’t aware of my body in comparison to someone else or a former self. And I remember I was in college. I mean I was squatting 315. By the way, weakest girl on the throwers at 315, just so we’re clear.

Kelly: [55:52] By far.

Jen: [55:54] Yeah. I mean my snatch was almost 200, which was like my shiny spot, but I was a hammer thrower so I had to. And I remember ripping out jeans at bars if we went out. I never thought twice about my food. I was also training a lot as well. But I was easily a size 10 because of my ass and my thighs. And I never thought twice about it. I never thought twice about getting naked with my boyfriend. I never obsessed in the mirror before I went out. When we took pictures, I never worried where my hand was, the flat arm thing with the elbow out or in. We just loved life. We loved being physically capable. And it wasn’t until I started getting into the fitness world where I started becoming ashamed of my body. I remember my least favorite attribute was my legs. When I started getting into American Gladiators, I hated my legs. 

Kelly: [56:50] Even though they were your moneymakers.

Juliet: [56:51] Yeah, moneymaker right there.

Jen: [56:53] Number one compliment I get is my legs and I hated them the most. And I was so embarrassed by them. And I would go to fitness auditions and I would try to wear tights. And I never wanted to wear shorts. And I was like, oh God. And I miss that mindset. And I don’t know, I think it happens for every woman because and now it’s happening sooner because I hear it with little kids too. But Juliet, do you remember that time when you weren’t thinking about it and then suddenly it became all you thought about?

Juliet: [57:19] Oh yeah. Man, I don’t know when that was. And I honestly think a big part of that and one of the big negative things of social media because I was even showing Kelly that you know when you click on the little magnifying glass on Instagram to see things that you might be interested in? Well, for some reason, up until recently 90 percent of the things I might be interested in would be women wearing booty shorts and a tank top who were super jacked and lean and have like 12 pack abs. And I was like this is not good for me. I am a 47-year-old woman, I have a job, I’ve had two babies. You know, I have loose skin and stretchmarks and this is not who I should be comparing myself to. So I’ve been trying to retrain my Instagram where I only ever click on like cat photos. And I just showed Kelly today that on my little magnifying glass, now I still have like 10 percent jacked 25-year-old women.

Kelly: [58:16] Ninety percent old cat lady friends.

Juliet: [58:16] Ninety percent cats.

Kelly: [58:17] Like it’s crazy.

Juliet: [58:19] So anyway, yes, I do think that’s definitely one way that social media gets me down as a woman, is just sort of — and especially as a woman who’s in this health and fitness business, where I obviously do need to live up to some standard of health and fitness. But I also am never, ever going to look like a 25- year-old professional CrossFit athlete anymore. Like that’s just not possible. 

Jen: [58:42] Totally.

Juliet: [58:42] So yeah, that’s tough. I think for me the social media piece can be tough and I have to make sure that I tune that out, turn it off, don’t pay attention, don’t compare. It’s really hard though.

Jen: [58:52] Oh yeah. I mean it’s a dangerous neighborhood up here when I start to look. And I’m like this girl, she’s like 50 pounds, she’s this, she’s that. And I’m like Jennifer, back off, okay? She’s got to eat too. Don’t worry about what she’s doing. And but I’m with you. It’s funny.

Kelly: [59:10] It is easy.

Jen: [59:10] And I just, and what’s interesting is like I cried with my best friend. I’ve known her since college, right? We were 17. And she has two little ones, she’s pregnant with her third. But she had gone through a miscarriage. And so her body was just kind of being funny. And she’s got a pretty bad knee. And was crying. She’s like I’ve never worried about my body, and I’m embarrassed by it, you know. And she’s 6 feet tall, incredible athlete, one of the best. Iron mind like Juliet. And I’m like I’ve never heard her crack or crumble and it’s even gotten to her. How is this getting so bad? 

And I’m not saying let’s rush to plus size modeling, everybody gains weight. But it’s really embracing your body, your size and shape, in a healthy way, and then honoring what happens to a woman’s body through children, whether it’s the hips spreading, the skin stretching, sometimes extra weight comes on. And it’s all okay. It’s part of this literally a miracle and —

Juliet: [60:28] Right. Growing a human being in your body. It’s crazy.

Jen: [60:30] And I say it and I’ve never had a child, so I can’t imagine what it feels like to have your body become the vessel. 

Kelly: [60:38] Oh, Juliet loved being pregnant. It was her favorite thing ever. 

Juliet: [60:40] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly: [60:41] Not. You know, hijacked. Look, you’re one of our besties. We can talk a lot. I want to know right now as we get closer, what are you working on, what are you excited about?

Jen: [60:56] Oh gosh, that’s so great. Thanks for asking. It’s funny. I did this little goals work with our friend AJ Pappas. And you know, listen, from a professional standpoint I couldn’t be happier. I have an app that I’ve launched called TrainHeroic. I’m doing programming, I’m coaching, I’m teaching live workouts. I’m building this massively special motley crew of a community. And it’s ours and it’s mine and we’re having a blast, right? I have my carb cycling challenges. That’s how I suckered Juliet into learning about it. I’m running those like every other month or so. I have another one coming up in the month of June. You know, I’ve got my CBD company. It’s thriving. Everything is going great. 

But I’m most excited about my personal life. And I realize that when I did this goals exercise, so much of where I’m excited to do things in my life, I’m the least happy with because I’ve set the least goals there and I’ve spent the least time there. And that’s with relationships, like with love. It’s in my own learning and it’s the things that challenge me. I don’t think I’ve been challenged in a while. And I’ve also realized that physical challenges don’t count because —

Kelly: [62:12] Not anymore. Not anymore.

Juliet: [62:12] Not for people like us.

Jen: [62:15] Yeah. And I’m at this precipice where I must now forge into a place where I’ve been asking people to go for my entire coaching career. And I’ve almost been at this fork in the road, happily avoiding that conversation and answering that question myself because I’m kind of directing traffic for people that needed help. And I’m just kind of excited about this next shift in my life and using this time while away and not on the road, like you guys often are every other week, to really kind of go deeper there. So you know, that’s really it. So that’s my —

Juliet: [62:54] And you’re relearning Spanish, which is amazing.

Jen: [62:57] Right. That’s my learning category. I’m like I’ve got to do this. I’ve been saying I want to be multilingual for the better part of a decade. And I’m like I know hola, I know me llamo Jennifer. And I’m still, I’m like I’ve got to get comfortable and I’ve got to start to put myself in these positions, especially because that’s what makes me a better teacher. And I’m ready to be better just across the board.

Juliet: [63:21] So if someone has listened to this and they are like I am going to give carb cycling a try, I know that you, and I follow and know that you do these periodic carb cycling challenges. When’s the next one starting? What would it involve? Where would people go if they wanted to sign up for one?

Jen: [63:37] Okay. Easy. So Widerstrong.com. I know it’s really clever, but no one can spell my last name. So you guys can put it in, I’m sure the episode notes.

Juliet: [63:44] Yeah, we’ll put it in the episode notes.

Jen: [63:45] But Widerstrong.com, everything’s in there. You sign up, I walk you through everything. I communicate weekly. I have live office hours. I give you all the information. I answer every email. There’s no — I have no assistant, it’s always Jen all the time, whether you like it or not. So that’s all on Widerstrong. You can learn about my app there. You can get my weekly newsletter. I’m putting out a lot of support. I’m giving free courses all the time just to help people during this time. I’m actually starting one in a week or so just doing like a — I mean I’m coaching live but I’m also doing some other personal work and growth for people. So all that can be found at my website at Widerstrong. And then my social media’s always just my full name, Jen Widerstrom. So I’m there as a resource if anybody wants a friend or a high five or wants me to kick their butt.

Juliet: [64:32] Or a killer ab workout because I feel like lately you’ve had these — you’ve been doing like amazing.

Jen: [64:37] I’m pushing myself creatively. And I’ve got to tell you guys about this. I haven’t even talked to you about this. You know, I haven’t been coaching in a long time because I did Biggest Loser and you can’t take on classes and clients if I’m not going to be home. And I’m pushed on the road so much that I’ve lost one of my first loves, which is coaching. And taking on this athlete now, which is why I’m in Florida. I just forgot how much I loved it. I love the experience, the programming, the creativity. And it’s really been this kismet experience where I come to my Airbnb and I’m by myself with a couple of beers. And I start to think of all these ab exercises and workouts, like how can I get someone to actually have a good workout in their home. Boom. So I’m glad you thought it was hard because I think it’s hard, but it’s just me here, so.

Juliet: [65:35] Yeah, you’re like it’s the missing feedback loop. Well, Jen, it is — we are so honored to have you on. Thank you so much for being here, taking the time, being our friend, supporting me in my own carb cycling. We’re just very grateful for you.

Jen: [65:47] Listen, you guys are two people that are — you belong to the world. And I think if anybody ever had a chance to sit down with you face to face and just hear you, see you, but really feel and understand your presence and who you are as humans, I know it’s a pivot point for them. And my hope is that we can see each other soon and we can continue to put you in the lives of more people because I tell you, the world needs the Starretts. You guys are very special and I love you very much. 

Kelly: [66:18] Go, J Star.

Juliet: [66:20] Thank you so much, Jen.

Kelly: [66:20] Jenny, you are the best. Thank you so much.

Jen: [66:22] You guys. I love you.

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