Jason + Colleen Wachob

Jason + Colleen Wachob
Full Transcript

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Kelly: [0:00:04] Hey everyone, I’m Dr. Kelly Starrett.

Juliet: [0:00:06] And I’m Juliet Starrett.

Kelly: [0:00:08] And you’re listening to The Ready State Podcast.


Juliet: [00:00:16] This episode of The Ready State Podcast is brought to you by LMNT. And look, we’re in the middle of our kids’ heavy duty sports and water polo season. I mean when are we not? But what we’re seeing is the coolers of Gatorade and Powerade at sporting events and this causes us to pull our hair out.

Kelly: [00:00:38] For a couple reasons. One, obviously the single use plastic bottle has got to get out of youth sports. I mean that is just trash. We’re just jamming those things into dolphins’ eyeballs, right? No wonder the orcas are so mad. Second is that that stuff doesn’t actually help your athletes play. It is an overly sugared water that actually dehydrates your athletes. So if you’re trying to get your kid to have some electrolytes, that is not the solution.

Juliet: [00:01:00] And it doesn’t help them recover.

Kelly: [00:01:01] That’s right. We know that. Look, of course, intrasession carbohydrate really works, but not this. It’s a sugar solution that actually pulls water out of your system. And all the colors, there’s so much crap in there, if you’re serious about trying to help your athletes replacing electrolytes, try LMNT. So tasty, it works, it’s very effective. And total solution. You’re going to save the world and actually have something that our elite athletes use. We give LMNT out and have turned on so many world champions, elite cyclists, into LMNT, plus our athlete friends. I’m telling you, if you want to do what the best is doing, it’s LMNT.

Juliet: [00:01:42] Yeah, and LMNT tastes good so kids like it. It comes in a small little single serving pack that can just be added to any kid’s already existing water bottle. And it’s a really effective and tasty solution for kids.

Kelly: [00:01:54] Or you can just have your kid be slower.

Juliet: [00:01:56] If you want your kid to be slower and less awesome at sport and you want to make sure that dolphins have no eyes, then you should stick with Gatorade.

Kelly: [00:02:04] If you want a good solution, LMNT.

Juliet: [00:02:06] But otherwise, you should switch to LMNT. Right now, if you order through our link, you get a free sample pack with all of LMNT’s flavors. Go to drinklmnt.com/trs and help your kid be awesome. 

Kelly: [00:02:18] More awesome.

Juliet: [00:02:20] On this episode of The Ready State Podcast, we are delighted to welcome Colleen and Jason Wachob. They are the cofounders and co-CEOs of mindbodygreen, the leading independent media brand dedicated to wellbeing, with 15 million monthly unique visitors. Jason is also the host of the popular mindbodygreen podcast and the bestselling author of Wellth: How to Build a Life, Not a Resume. He has been featured in The New York Times, Entrepreneur, Forbes, Fast Company, Business Insider, and Vogue, and has a BA in history from Columbia University, where he played varsity basketball for four years. He and his wife Colleen live in Miami with their two daughters, Ellie and Grace, and in his spare time, he loves walking to get hot black coffee.

Kelly: [00:03:06] And Colleen after graduating from Stanford spent 10 years working at Fortune 500 companies, including GAP, Walmart, and Amazon, before devoting her life’s work to mindbodygreen. She’s a prolific speaker and her new passion that brings her joy—pickleball—which I can respect. 

Juliet: [00:03:21] So this was such a fun conversation and as you’ll hear in the episode, we have so much in common with these two, not just sort of tactically in terms of how our lives have gone, but just how we’ve evolved in or philosophy about health and fitness and wellness and what matters and have such similar evolutions in our thinking about what’s important to take care of this carcass that is our body.

Kelly: [00:03:43] Yeah and what you’ll see is that we’ve had similar health issues that focused us into highlighting how we ended up here, from a back injury to my neck injury. Also, I do love that while we are so similar, we are also stereoisomers a little bit, insomuch that they also are thinking a little bit differently about the problems and a little bit more focused on community, a little bit more focused on the sense of self and the psychoemotional journey that is required for us to feel better.

Juliet: [00:04:14] Yeah, and one of their core philosophies is that whatever you do from a health standpoint needs to be something that brings you joy.

Kelly: [00:04:23] Versus the way we like to train?

Juliet: [00:04:23] And I think we’ve created this culture where so many of these practices that we recommend to people are devoid of joy and in fact are more about restriction and disconnection and I love that they’re really trying to bring that piece of it back into the conversation here.

Kelly: [00:04:41] If you view how you’re working with your spouse or partner, imagine working with them, I think this also is a great conversation about that, as you and I talk about a lot, that it’s pretty extraordinary that we get to work together. Everyone, I think you’re really going to love this convo. Delightful, smart people making a change and they’ve been doing it for a long time. We’re going to talk about their book, Joy of Well-Being. Please enjoy this podcast.

Juliet: [00:05:04] Colleen and Jason, welcome to The Ready State Podcast.

Jason Wachob: [00:05:07] So great to be here. We are such big fans of your work. So it’s an honor.

Juliet: [00:05:12] I want to start by saying I feel like you guys are our doppelgangers in the universe.

Kelly: [00:05:18] East Coast, West Coast.

Juliet: [00:05:19] You guys are like East Coast Starretts and we’re the West Coast version of you two.

Kelly: [00:05:24] You have way more hair than I do, but it still balances out in the universe.

Juliet: [00:05:29] But I feel like we have in many ways similar origin stories in terms of the ways that we both came into this health, wellness, fitness space. And so I know there’s two of you, but if you could both maybe tell us a little bit about… I’d love to talk about mindbodygreen of course, but what led both of you to working in this space that you’re in, which I would universally describe as health, wellness, fitness, generally. 

Kelly: [00:05:55] Those are the worst terms, aren’t they?

Juliet: [00:05:56] I know. Sometimes we’re like wow, these are the words that describe what we do.

Jason Wachob: [00:06:00] That’s why we like wellbeing. We have a couple whys. I have two. My why has changed in the 14 years mindbodygreen has been around. Initially it came from yoga saving me from back surgery. I was an ex-college athlete. I played basketball at Columbia 25 years ago, worked on Wall Street for a little bit—that’s what you did back then—became an entrepreneur, and found myself running a startup that wasn’t doing well. And I flew over 100,000 domestic in one year. I am 6’7, me in a coach seat is terrible for the person in front of me and for me, my lower back. And so the flying, the stress of the startup not doing well, and an old basketball injury led to two extruded discs in my lower back, the classic L4, L5, S1. You know it well. So the excruciating sciatica in my right leg was like a lightning rod. I couldn’t walk. Walking is literally one of my favorite things to do in life. If I don’t get my 10,000 steps a day, I’m a grumpy dinosaur. So I couldn’t do that.

Kelly: [00:07:00] Colleen, were you guys together at this time?

Jason Wachob: [00:07:01] We were dating. I felt like I’m a loser, I can’t walk. Knew she was a keeper. My company’s doing terrible, I’m about to be broke, and I can’t walk. I love you. And so went to a doctor and he said, “You need back surgery. I’m looking at the MRI and you need back surgery.” I have nothing against surgery but generally see it as last resort. As you know well, the success rate of back surgeries typically aren’t great. So I sought a second opinion. That doctor said the same thing. We tried cortisol shots too, that didn’t work. It was almost like an afterthought. He said, “Maybe some yoga therapy could help.” Colleen and I were dating and she had a yoga practice. I was like, all right, I’ll give this a shot. Little light yoga, nothing serious.

Kelly: [00:07:40] Had you done yoga before?

Jason Wachob: [00:07:42] A little bit, but-

Kelly: [00:07:44] You were an athlete so you didn’t do yoga.

Jason Wachob: [00:07:46] I was an athlete. Five to 10 minutes in the morning and evening and I started to feel better. And over the course of six months, I could start to feel the sciatic pain go further north. And my understanding, the further south it went, the worse it would be. So it started to… Went from like the toes, once it got to my butt, I’m like I’m going to be good. It went away over a six month period. I went from couldn’t walk to being totally fine. And made a lot of changes in my life at the time. Yoga was a big part of it. Started to look at sleep, stress, nutrition. My idea of nutrition back then was steak and martinis. Palm Steakhouse. I consumed so much my face is on the wall at the Palm next to Adam Sandler and Joe Namath. It’s kind of insane.

Kelly: [00:08:27] Legit.

Juliet: [00:08:28] Is it still there, by the way?

Jason Wachob: [00:08:30] Still there. The face is much fuller. Lot more alcohol back then.

Juliet: [00:08:35] And redder I bet. More red. 

Kelly: [00:08:36] We’ve got to double click on this for a second. I challenge anyone, just try that diet, just for a week, and see how you feel. It’s really shocking.

Jason Wachob: [00:08:43] I had a kidney stone in my early 30s.

Kelly: [00:08:36] No.

Jason Wachob: [00:08:48] Yeah, it’s extraordinarily painful. I still eat meat but make sure it’s grassfed, not as much. I wasn’t healthy. And so it was through that experience that I said, wow, everyone’s got health and wellness wrong. Rewind to 2008 and 2009, the word wellness was equated with spa. Anything that was a little bit more holistic was New Agey, crazy, preach to the choir, the west side of LA, Brooklyn, Boulder, Venice. We all know the stereotype. In our future, the future was a little bit more holistic but it was scientifically driven. It was this mental, physical, spiritual, environmental wellbeing and they were all connected. One word, mindbodygreen. And that was the why. 

I’ll segue, the why has evolved as I’ve aged. I’m 48. Men in my family have a terrible track record of longevity. My father died of heart disease at 47. One grandfather died of heart disease at 49. The other, of cancer at 44. Got two little girls, age six and four. I want to be around for quite some time and I want to be healthy and I want to be mobile. And the whys segued to longevity. And we kind of view this as the 1.0, the 2.0, and 3.0. And the science is so great, there’s so many great thought leaders, they said you know what, we can extend life span, years. And then there’s the 2.0, which is health span because people want to be absent of disease. They don’t want to be living to 100 but spending the last 30, 40 years ridden with disease, visiting doctors’ offices, hooked on pharmaceuticals, not being able to do what they want to do. You want to ideally live 90 years, 11 months, 30 days and then rapidly decline overnight if you’re going to live to 100. That’s health span. You want to be healthy, fit, and mobile. 

We kind of like the 3.0 of joy span. What’s the point of living a healthy, long life, being fit and mobile if you’re miserable? And I think so much of the conversation has advanced. We can get there. But it’s inaccessible—I think this is where we’re very much aligned—and impractical for people who have families, for people who work a lot. They take one look at the science and some of the voices out there, and they say, there’s no way I can do this. If I’m doing a three-hour protocol in the morning, Colleen’s filing for divorce. Our whys evolved. The beauty of the science, the beauty of the work that you do is there’s so much that screams access. You can do this. The big objection to our world is I don’t have the time, I don’t have the resources. And we totally get it. And that’s how our why’s evolved. You can do it and it can be low cost, no cost, and you can do it with minimal time.

Juliet: [00:11:15] And what about you, Colleen? What I will say is it seems like we had similar… I was a big firm corporate attorney and you were a big corporate person. But tell us about your whole journey. And what I will say quickly, Jason, that you may not know, and Kelly can tell this story, but he had an injury that drove him to go to physical therapy school that we think is like the first point of us getting into this as well. So we can tell that story.

Kelly: [00:11:40] Just a neck nervous system injury.

Juliet: [00:11:42] Yeah. But anyway, go ahead, Colleen, because we’d love to hear your backstory too.

Colleen Wachob: [00:11:46] Yeah, so I have the very typical corporate America experience into my mid-30s until I had one of those breakdown moments that led me into wellbeing and breakthrough. But my hope is that people don’t have to have this cosmic kick in the butt from the universe before they start making changes to their lives. One of the big questions in the book is when do you know when it’s time to change your life. And I wish we would listen to the whispers of our body more from my personal experience of not doing that. So I was in my early 30s working in New York. I had worked at GAP, Walmart, and Amazon. And I went to my Saturday morning ritual of going to Tara Stiles’s yoga class. And after class, I called Jason and I was like I’m having some trouble walking, I’m a little out of breath, can you meet me. And so we walked around the West Village. And I was like I just need to go home. And so we took the A train home. And the steps on this particular train in Brooklyn are really steep so I collapsed on the stairs. And then I did what so many people do, I gaslit my symptoms and I’m like I’m totally fine, I’m dehydrated, it’s a hot day, I worked out too much in class. Because I didn’t want to go to the ER. And then proceeded to nap and be lethargic the rest of the weekend. And come Monday morning, Jason was like the only way you are going to work is if you stop by the doctor’s office. So within a couple of minutes, the doctor is like you’re having a pulmonary embolism. And I was completely bewildered and confused. I was expecting maybe a I had a cold or a cough or something along those lines. And he gave me a little sign that said, “I’m having a pulmonary embolism.” It was unclear if he didn’t think I would be able to articulate what was happening to me once I got to the NYU ER or unclear if I’d be able to direct someone of what the issue was when I got there.

Juliet: [00:13:35] I just have to visualize this. An actual sign that says, “I’m having a pulmonary embolism.”

Colleen Wachob: [00:13:41] Yeah.

Jason Wachob: [00:13:41] Like the way car drivers used to hang your name.

Juliet: [00:13:43] Yeah, your sign, we’re picking you guys up at the airport.

Colleen Wachob: [00:13:47] Totally because when you’re in New York City, you don’t call an ambulance. The faster way for you to get to the ER at that point in time was to hop in a cab. It was just when Uber was getting in stride. And when we got to the ER-

Kelly: [00:13:59] I just have to stop. That is the most progressive, rad position ever, hey, I’m going to call ahead, but here’s a sign. Let me just rummage through, no, no, no. Pulmonary embolism. Holy crap.

Jason Wachob: [00:14:12] Also in my mind was did he think she would make it. If she were to pass out in the cab someone would find you.

Colleen Wachob: [00:14:18] In the cab someone would find me. 

Juliet: [00:14:20] Right. You’re just laying in the back and they pull up to the ER and you have this sign on your chest. I mean wow, that’s like there’s a lot there with that sign, I would say.

Colleen Wachob: [00:14:28] Yeah, when you see a 32 year old woman your first thought isn’t pulmonary embolism. So once I got to the ER I learned I had showers of clots and was a pulmonary embolism. And that started what was a very long road to recovery where there’s blood thinners that they have you on as you work through the clots. But it was truly an invisible illness. I looked fine on the outside but it was a struggle to breathe and that was the first time I had really thought about my breath for so long. And I remember looking at the stories for women who had had pulmonary embolisms and trying to find hope in their stories of resilience and making it through. And when a 32-year-old has showers of clots in their lungs, hematologists and Western medicine, conventional medicine was running every single test. And I don’t actually have any genetic predispositions to clotting. So the only conclusion they could come to was that the birth control pill and I were not a good combination even though I had been on it for about 10 years. I remember at my student health center in college when I got on it, they made you take a multiple choice test. But all of the questions were more about not getting pregnant. And I knew there was risks with the birth control pill but I think I had sidelined them in my brain because it was something that was more appropriate for smokers, it was something that was more appropriate for people that were overweight. And so I didn’t think of myself within that risk category. I wrote an article about this experience on mindbodygreen that went viral. And so many women had sisters, cousins, friends who had had a similar experience and many of them ending tragically. And I didn’t leave this experience being like I’m never taking medicine again, but I’m left more with the impression I’m going to be extraordinarily thoughtful and mindful of what I do choose to take as medicine. 

And it started this really long healing process where I was very confused. It was a game of Marco Polo in the 2010s in New York of going to Western doctors, going to healers and people who were completely outside my very rational thinking brain to try to feel better. Everything from astrology to intuitives and things that were completely outside my comfort zone, but I felt really lost. And when I look back, The Joy of Well-Being is the roadmap I wish I had back then to get better in tune with your body because at the end of the day, at the end of all of this work and all of this healing, you know your body best. You have to be the CEO of your own healthcare symphony. And we are blessed to have access to so many incredible practitioners. But at the end of the day, you have to get in touch with your body to understand what it needs. So that was my original why of how I got to this journey. But now at 43 and a mother of two, it’s really the mental health epidemic and raising two young girls and trying to teach them resilience in a life that has a lot of inevitable ups and downs and a really scary and frightening mental health crisis for two young girls.

Juliet: [00:17:29] Yeah, I mean we’ll get to that for sure. So we’ve mentioned it a few times but I just want to flash it here. You guys, congratulations on your new book called The Joy of Well-Being.

Kelly: [00:17:37] And let me just say that I really appreciate that while we have a ton of conciliants where we’re like, oh, Juliet and I have looked at your book and read your book and we’re like, oh, okay, we’re definitely on the right path, these other smart people have figured some things out too. But you really do talk about some of the mental side, the spiritual side that I don’t know, maybe you’re just too much of a bro, Juliet, and you’re not in touch with your soft feelings. But I feel like you guys picked up and where those Venn diagrams overlap is really powerful but where they sort of diverge is also really amazing. And these two stories are really remarkable. I think it’s interesting that both of you came out of a place that was really dark. You lost your loci of control, you lost your agency, how you identify yourselves. You’re a killer in New York and then all of a sudden, you’re like I can’t breathe. I mean that’s really remarkable. Or hey, I’m an athlete, entrepreneur and your brain is like, nope, no, you’re not. I mean it’s a really remarkable place to start from. Do you feel like that is one of the places that gives you the perspective of understanding this kind of common experience that we’re all having, is how do I feel like I belong in my body and in my community?

Jason Wachob: [00:18:52] Yeah, I think that’s a big part of it. I think whenever coming to a space, specifically our space, when you’re searching for answers, being humble-

Kelly: [00:19:03] And humbled.

Jason Wachob: [00:19:06] Exactly. Humbled and humble. And I think I was smart enough, we were smart enough to know we didn’t know everything. And we also, I think a core belief that we share is we believe in multiple perspectives. Doctors, researchers, shamans, whatever you prescribe to, these people are also humans. Some of them have God complexes. No one’s perfect. We believe in multiple perspectives. We believe in curiosity. We believe science is always evolving. And we believe in checking ourselves at the door with no ego. We come as listeners and lifelong learners. And although we’re not credentialed, I think that’s a core skill that many people could use right now because health is nuanced. It’s constantly changing. We believe in bio individuality. And I think because we came from places, we were at rock bottom, that’s how we’ve played in the space, if you will.

Colleen Wachob: [00:19:56] Yeah, and I think it’s given us a lot of empathy for a lot of different perspectives of people who are on various parts of a healing journey. But I think the biggest opportunity aren’t for people like us who’ve had these very specific kind of edge cases, it’s when you look at where we are right now and all of the metrics around health and wellbeing, there’s never been more health and wellness in the world, but yet we’re still unwell. Seventy percent of us are overweight. When you look at the statistics of people who call themselves very happy, we’re at an all time low of only 12 percent. So clearly, it’s not yielding the right results for everyone who didn’t have this edge case.

Jason Wachob: [00:20:40] And you guys have shared this and we agree, we’re spending so much in this category, it’s grown so much, there’s so much excitement, yet look at the numbers, we’re not doing so well. And it feels like the fit are getting fitter and everyone else is just kind of flailing. So what are we doing?

Juliet: [00:20:56] We couldn’t agree with that overall sentiment more and something that we’ve been talking about as we parade around and talk on podcasts, there’s more and more and more information available and I think our space is doing a cool thing in leaning into the science a little bit. But again, not sure that that lean in is actually helping people make practical change in their lives. And then the other point you made, which is something that we’ve struggled with even just on a business level, is how do we get people to care before they have these dark moments or catastrophic situations. Because our expertise is teaching people how to be mobile and take care of their bodies, and oftentimes the first time people come to us and realize this is important is after they’ve been injured in some way. And then once they see that there are tools out there, that they can actually make change in their own body and help themselves feel better at home on their living room floor or on their gym floor, they’re converts for sure. But we have struggled over the years to say how do we encourage people—it’s delayed gratification—but how do we encourage people to put some input into their bodies before they get injured. And it sounds like you guys are on the same quest. So what are your thoughts on that?

Jason Wachob: [00:22:16] I couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately, most people don’t think about these things until they’re taken away.

Kelly: [00:22:23] But I think that’s reasonable for a lot of people. How can I possibly keep this in my head all the time-

Juliet: [00:22:26] Human nature.

Kelly: [00:22:28] And get my kids to water polo practice?

Jason Wachob: [00:22:31] Exactly. And the other problem here—this is another why behind the book—it’s the state of media right now. Get air time, extremes play. There’s a study in the book we reference that came out of Horton where they looked at the most emailed list of The New York Times. Essentially, these are the most widely read articles in the world. And they wanted to see if there were patterns in terms of emotion. And yes, there were patterns. The top three emotions that determine virality were anxiety, awe, and anger. Anger was number one. Anger increased virality by 34 percent. In other words, if someone reads an article in The New York Times that caused them to be angry, that article was more likely to be read and shared. We don’t think The New York Times is unique here. We think this is social media. If you take a look at your Instagram feed, what’s getting…. For the most part, it’s having an extreme point of view. Nuance-

Kelly: [00:23:22] I do have a lot of angry cats on my Instagram. It’s true.

Jason Wachob: [00:23:25] There you go. And that’s an issue.

Colleen Wachob: [00:23:29] And how do we shift this conversation to be more about the fundamentals? You have to bake a cake, before you put on the frosting is what our friend JJ Bergin always says, and right now the conversation is too much about the frosting and all the fun Malibu bro kind of wellness or the Kardashian wellness, on the other side of it. You see it playing out both ways. The extremes playing out-

Jason Wachob: [00:23:54] Malibu and Calabasas. 

Colleen Wachob: [00:23:55] In very different ways. But how does this just become the way we live and how do we integrate this into our lives? And I think it does start really young. And I’m grateful that our children are learning things that were never taught to me in school. They come home with box breathing and they come home talking about breathing through your nose. But obviously, there’s so much more work to be done. And not everything they’re learning clearly… The food is somewhat catastrophic in the school system. But I do think these rituals have to be modeled to younger generations so that kids see us being healthy, they see us breathing certain says, they see us being thoughtful around the eight pillars that we have in The Joy of Well-Being so these pillars are just the way we live. And it’s not like this other thing that we’re doing, and now we’re going to go out and be well. 

Kelly: [00:24:42] That’s right. I want to just pause for a second because I think the four of us can deep dive into some of the grittiness. But I would love to know when you two got together and decided, hey, let’s become podcasters, writers, entrepreneurs. Was that an obvious connection fit to you?

Colleen Wachob: [00:24:03] I’ve heard you guys talk about this subject and we’re actually shockingly aligned here as well.

Juliet: [00:25:10] Just so you guys you know, we consider ourselves to be sort of accidental entrepreneurs. You guys started off on completely different career paths. Kelly’s was semi aligned. But still, we were definitely doing a more traditional route and took this extreme left.

Kelly: [00:25:25] But people ask us all the time, how do you work together? And I’m like, well, don’t you run a household together, don’t you raise kids together? Really, it’s just an extension of that. Don’t you solve a thousand problems? Doesn’t your wife drive you crazy a thousand times a day? No, she doesn’t. But 999 times. But I think it’s really, the two of you working together is anomalous. Could you just talk about how that came to be and what that’s like because I got this tattoo below my elbow over 10 years ago because I was like I will never work for anyone ever again. That was me literally burning the bridge. I was like, look, I’m unhirable.

Juliet: [00:26:00] That was so 2010 because now everyone has tattoos. You could have any job now.

Kelly: [00:26:05] For me, I personally believe that my tattoo also meant, look, I can never go back and work for anyone else. I’m going to cut the cord here. And I also feel like I couldn’t possibly work with any other person. There’s no other place for me. I’ve become so hyperspecialized working with Juliet that I was like, nope, can’t be on a team, couldn’t work anywhere.

Juliet: [00:26:26] How do you manage it as a married couple? Do you have strategies and things you do?

Kelly: [00:26:26] How did it even come to be? Because I know a lot of couples who do yoga together and they don’t launch fitness empires.

Jason Wachob: [00:26:37] It’s a great question and so I’m an entrepreneur. So even when I was an equities trader I worked for a company but I was very much a solo producer. It was me and my P and L, that’s all that mattered and then was an entrepreneur. It was in my blood. I remember I said to Colleen, I’m going to go with this. We have other cofounders, but I’m going all in. Our other cofounders kept their day jobs, Colleen kept her job, she supported me. And I said, you know what, in six months, we’ll get to revenue. Six months. This was in ‘09. Three years. And it was brutal. We had just gotten married. I was wrong in terms of the trajectory to revenue.

Colleen Wachob: [00:27:20] And we have such different mindsets about entrepreneurship and I think over the past decade it’s been glamorized so much without showing all of –

Juliet: [00:27:29] The pain.

Colleen Wachob: [00:27:30] The ups and downs. Pain. Yeah. And so-

Kelly: [00:27:33] We just saw that article about all the influencers who have left making TikToks. Influencers have gotten jobs because it was too stressful. Working for yourself was gnarly, only eating what you could kill was brutal. And they were like I can’t do this anymore. And I was like, aw, look at you little failed entrepreneurs on TikTok.

Colleen Wachob: [00:27:51] No, totally. And I grew up without any rose colored glasses on around entrepreneurship. My parents are OG entrepreneurs before this whole wave of venture capital, they owned car washes in Los Angeles. And I remember growing up understanding that if it rained, my parents wouldn’t make any money that day. And I was not someone who aspired to be an entrepreneur because I was very clear on a lot of the downsides from growing up in my family. So we did not see… We didn’t have the same kind of risk outlook. And I was very employable because of my corporate background and stayed on to salary and health insurance for quite a long time, until I had my breakdown moment. But it would have been catastrophic for our marriage if I had not. I’m never the person who’s like, “Go all in without a safety net, without income.” Because financial wellbeing is the most unsexy thing to talk about in the entire wellbeing conversation. But if you are not clear on where your rent’s coming from, where your health insurance, these basic fundamentals, it is adding so much stress and there are so many people living with this stress daily. But I would just never invite it for an entrepreneurial endeavor into my life. 

So luckily, we had a lot of great therapy at the beginning of our marriage and I think it not only helped our personal marriage and how we view money and talked about financial wellbeing, but I think it also created a shared outlook on how we run the company today, which is running a profitable business, which makes sense in 2023. But five years ago, people would be like, what are you guys doing.

Jason Wachob: [00:29:30] And I think we are very lucky in that we have different skillsets. We actually work well together, which not all couples do. It’s not for everyone. We know each other’s strengths and weaknesses and it works. We know a lot of couples in our space too where it’s been, it’s destroyed their marriage. But for us, it works.

Colleen Wachob: [00:29:51] I’m always working on being less rattled by the lows. I never celebrate the highs too much. But having someone who you can talk to at an intimate level is to me such a huge, huge benefit. 

Jason Wachob: [00:30:04] The highs are higher and sometimes the lows are lower because you’re sharing it, but you have someone to share it with. Being a solo entrepreneur is very difficult. To have someone you can confide in and share, specifically in our space, wellness isn’t our job, it’s our wellbeing; wellbeing isn’t our job, it’s our life, it’s our passion. And so it transcends work. It’s not nine to five for us, it’s 24/7.

Kelly: [00:30:30] I want to double click on that and acknowledge first of all that the only reason we have a house is because Juliet was employed by someone. I was running my own physio practice out of our gym.

Juliet: [00:30:40] They wouldn’t allow us… I had to be the only one on our mortgage when we bought our house even though Kelly was making money, but because I had a regular, standard issue, W2 job.

Colleen Wachob: [00:30:53] We understand.

Jason Wachob: [00:30:54] Yes.

Kelly: [00:30:55] I thought you brought something up, is that when the stress is on and you feel like you’re really working hard, it’s hard to be vulnerable and hard to be able to communicate. And one of the things that I can speak to as a 50-year-old man now who has a feeling – I don’t have many, but I have a feeling now-

Juliet: [00:31:12] He has one feeling.

Kelly: [00:31:12] Is I’ve realized I really wasn’t, there was a time in my life, especially in my late 30s where we were the worst, we were the thinnest we were, where Juliet was the only person I could talk to in the world, which was amazing. But also, I had not spent any energy creating any kind of network where I could be vulnerable and intimate besides Juliet. And it was hard to do that with Juliet because we had so much at stake. So I just think that what you just said there, I just want to highlight that for people, that you have to create relationships where you can be brutally honest and brutally vulnerable if you’re going to withstand this thing called life, especially as an entrepreneur. I really appreciate that because I feel we know a lot of people they’re just shells of themselves and they look like they should have everything but they don’t have the opportunity to really connect in a meaningful and vulnerable way. 

Jason Wachob: [00:32:02] Men are terrible here. If I were to rewind and go back to those moments, if I would have said to my very masculine guy friends who I play basketball with, it’s like what are you doing, dude, go back to Wall Street. And we’re terrible about asking for help, we’re terrible about keeping in touch. Women are far superior than men in terms of communication and asking for help and being vulnerable.

Colleen Wachob: [00:32:29] But it’s this bigger theme of relationships and community can have the biggest impact on your mortality and lower it by 45 percent. And obviously nutrition and movement is important. But we talk about those in such an outsized way. And we want to bring a conversation towards all the connection influencers. Where are they on TikTok? Where are they on Instagram? Encouraging us to keep in touch with an old friend. We don’t have this etiquette and protocols for how we should interact in this new world. And there was a wonderful Wall Street Journal article recently about how so many women are realizing the importance of IRL connection, that they are treating it the same way they would a work KPI. And hey, I want to get together live with one woman a coffee a week because people are realizing that even with or without the science that proves that texting a friend is not having the same impact on your brain as the oxytocin you get from when you meet and connect with someone IRL and are able to say, “Hey, how are you really doing?”

Juliet: [00:33:28] Yeah, I read this article actually in The New York Times six months ago that was like The Power of the Four Minute Phone Call or something. For whatever reason, it just kind of hit me right at the right time. And so ever since then, I’ve been trying to find these little opportunities to have three, four minute phone calls with my friends, including a lot of the… I’m sure you guys have them too. You have these lifelong friends that you’re friends with but you don’t talk to as much, you only connect with them once or twice a year or something. So I’ve been trying to reach out to those people. It doesn’t need to be some big, long conversation, time commitment where we catch up on every last detail. But it’s just like check in, how are we doing. And even that can be a nice way of connection.

 But I want to add a couple things. I think I couldn’t agree more. I mean I was at some fitness conference five or six years ago. And Kelly was speaking but I was watching a different presenter and there was just a graph up there about the things that affect our wellbeing and longevity. And far and away above all the things that we all love to talk about—sleep, nutrition, walking, all the things that we share and love—was connection and community. And also you guys are friends with Dan Buettner that we know from The Blue Zones that that seems to be a huge part of why there are so many centenarians in those communities. So it’s so critical and I think it’s so important that you guys are talking about this in your book. One thing I do want to ask though because we’ve referred to it a few times and I would love for you to elaborate on it, can you tell us why you guys relate to and use the word wellbeing over wellness? And I have to say it was one of my favorite parts of your book because even you could tell when we started this conversation I was like, “Welcome, we’re all in the fitness, wellness community.” And somehow, I don’t know if it’s because I came from another place but I always struggled to feel that I personally relate to any one of those things. I don’t see myself necessarily as a fitness person and there’s a lot of weird… I’m pretty middle of the road as a human. There’s a lot of weird stuff in wellness that I can’t really-

Kelly: [00:35:24] No one wants me to take my shirt off.

Juliet: [00:35:26] So I don’t know. 

Kelly: [00:35:26] No one.

Juliet: [00:35:31] I’ve never felt comfortable in those-

Kelly: [00:35:31 inaudible]

Juliet: [00:35:33] One quick story for you guys. There was some article written about me which we laugh about in this office a lot where it was like Juliet Starrett, lawyer turned personal trainer. And I was like, wow, okay, that’s so not at all what I do.

Kelly: [00:35:44] But that’s a sign that that person had no idea how to describe what it is you do.

Juliet: [00:35:50] So anyway, I think these words are really important and I love how you guys really open your book and make a really clear case for why wellbeing is what we’re all after and what you guys are about. So tell us a little bit about that.

Colleen Wachob: [00:36:03] We share your same complications with the word wellness. And even in the early days of mindbodygreen, we never used the word wellness. It was just starting to be in the zeitgeist. But we talked about it in the sense of mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, environmental wellbeing. That’s obviously a mouthful to describe what we do. But I think especially now as two parents, as entrepreneurs, we look at the wellness landscape, and the literal cacophony of voices between social media, between the different platforms, between the doc stars out there, and we look at a world that spans, we talked a little bit about the bro culture of biohacking where there is so much rigidity, there is so much protocols, there is an assumption that we have the time and resources to do them. And Juliet, I know we share this frustration of a morning routine that is just not possible if you are involved in your children’s morning routine and getting them to school. And then at the other end of the spectrum, it’s Kardashian wellness. And it’s so many treatments and things and protocols to do in a very different perhaps more vanity driven world. And we look at all of this wellness and there’s never been so much of it. And we don’t have the time, the resources to do it. And our routines are so simple and integrated and uncomplicated. So there was a very intentional decision to not call this book The Joy of Wellness and to move the conversation from rigidity to hopefully one of wellbeing, which to us is more abundance, more joy, and a lot less restriction.

Jason Wachob: [00:37:32] It feels like it’s about the frosting, so to speak. You’ve got to bake the cake before the frosting. And look, we do like the frosting. I’m wearing an Oura, a WHOOP and then we sleep on an eight sleep mattress. So we do like some of the frosting. But you’ve got to bake the cake. You’ve got to get the fundamentals. And I think all the focus in wellness is around the frosting. And I think the reality is and the data is I think very strong here, most people aren’t doing the fundamentals.

Juliet: [00:38:00] Hey Ready State listeners, if you like what you’re hearing, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes to help others find our show.

Juliet: [00:38:05] This episode of The Ready State Podcast is brought to you by Momentous.

Kelly: [00:38:11] One of the things that is crucial for people to be successful in adding and supporting nutrition is accessibility, how often someone can replicate something and how consistent they can be with it. 

Juliet: [00:38:21] And convenience really helps with that.

Kelly: [00:38:23] Oh man, it is the magic. We see that everyone is pretty much on board with collagen can really help support your ligaments, support your connective tissue. But it’s really difficult to get it. The collagen shot by Momentous is so easy to take, so easy to bring with you, so easy to throw in your bag. You have all these kids in summer playing games. I mean you can jump in the car and be like, oh, I’ve got my collagen right there, boom. I have to say that of all the things that have changed my ability to be consistent, this collagen shot has been it. It is a transformation of getting regular collagen supplementation.

Juliet: [00:39:00] Yeah, and if you look at any of our backpacks or our cars, you’ll always find a miscellaneous collagen shot around and we’re like, oh, I didn’t take my collagen today but here’s one sitting here in my backpack, it’s so easy and transportable.

Kelly: [00:39:11] Not all collagen’s the same, not all collagen is third party tested. Not all collagen comes from good sources. Not all collagen has actually the studied versions of collagen. And so what you’re going to see is the Momentous collagen shot ticks all the boxes. I cannot stress enough how gnarly the supplement world is and how gross it is. Make sure all your supplements are third party tested, third party validated so that they actually contain what they say they contain and not a bunch of other crap. Momentous leads the way for this.

Juliet: [00:39:44] Go get your collagen shots. It’s livemomentous.com/trs. And use code TRS for 20 percent off your first purchase. 

Juliet: [00:39:54] This episode of The Ready State Podcast is brought to you by our friends at YETI and specifically the Yonder water bottle. And I’ll start by saying that anyone who knows us or has been to our house in particular knows what huge fans we are of all things YETI. But the Yonder bottle is something that came out more recently and really, I think fit a missing piece for us in our YETI quiver.

Kelly: [00:40:20] Yeah, there are sometimes when I needed a light bottle with a better cap than what existed in the world. I wanted to bring my heavy metal bottles which of course we love and take everywhere, but the Yonder solves a big problem for me. It’s a little bit lighter, it’s a little bit easier. And check this out, I actually sometimes can tell how much water I’ve consumed because I can see through it. I love that about this bottle.

Juliet: [00:40:42] Yeah, I mean we use this bottle for travel, for backpacking, for outdoor adventures. Anytime that weight is an issue and we don’t want to carry our heavier insulated bottles, we use our Yonder bottles and it’s amazing.

Kelly: [00:40:55] I have used this thing, we have put it through the test.

Juliet: [00:40:57] Yeah, we have put it through the test.

Kelly: [00:40:58] Backcountry skiing in Japan. In the desert. Some gnarly situations.

Juliet: [00:41:00] Backpacking, river trips.

Kelly: [00:41:04] This thing is bomb proof.

Juliet: [00:41:05] It’s bomb proof and has all the great things that all YETI products have. It’s just a little bit lighter. So if you want to check out a Yonder bottle for yourself, go to thereadystate.com/yeti.

Juliet: [00:41:20] I love that you guys have the cake frosting analogy. Kelly and I, the analogy that we use is base camp because we went through and continue to be in an Everest phase of our lives. And we’ve read every single Everest book. We’ve watched every Everest documentary. We have literally zero desire to climb Everest.

Kelly: [00:41:37] We’re going to Everest base camp for our 20th anniversary.

Juliet: [00:41:40] For some reason, we’re captivated by all things Everest. And so we think of it as base camp. And so your average person, we just need to get them to base camp. We want them to be-

Kelly: [00:41:48] We’re arguing about which color shoes are the best way to assemble the Khumbu.

Juliet: [00:41:52] They’re already up on the Khumbu ice fall and they haven’t even slept last night. I love the cake frosting analogy as well.

Kelly: [00:42:01] Let me ask something that I think resonates with me is that we really are talking about how to be human beings and what does that mean. We discovered and we started saying during the pandemic the human brain is only a brain if it’s around other brains. And what we saw was as soon as you isolated people, that did not go well for community or society or personal health, just our ability to navigate. One of the things I think listening to you talk about your way into these conversations, we came out of performance, that was the way we backed into this stuff. That was the technical… And what I’ve found as a physio, that bias, was that it was really difficult for me to talk about psychology and mindset and all of those things. Maybe it’s my own rejection of my mother as a psychologist. I get that. But I was able to back into a lot of these nuanced conversations about feelings, about connections, about being on a team through physical practice, that if we could just get you to take care of your body… Starting from the top down sometimes is really difficult. 

The brain, you get this, with chronic pain, I’m like, hey, you’re just too stressed, so be less stressed, bro. You’re like I’m going to cut you. That doesn’t work. But having those conversations from the top of course work. But also, you found that moving was the thing that started this conversation and now I can have different beliefs about my own back or beliefs about my agency, and that’s what I think is so wonderful about your book is that it’s really this nice top down, let’s make sure that we’re addressing this psychoemotional spiritual aspect of ourselves. But then also, it’s rooted in the fact that we can begin with the physical practice up because we see that people are so in their heads. 

And I think this is particularly interesting to me right now because we’re working with a lot of athletes in our other day job who are really struggling with mindset and confidence and self-belief. And raising two daughters and watching the number of kids around them really struggle with those feelings of adequacy and feeling of battling depression and all the other things. It’s really in our faces all the time that we’re not doing a good job and what it’s led me to believe is, wow, I wonder if kids are sleeping, if they’re eating, do they feel tired at the end of the day, those things. So I guess it’s a long way of saying that we have addressed top down very much. It’s important; it’s the thing. But the bottom up thing is maybe the easier way or that’s my perspective, that it’s been easier to initiate these conversations about how you are in your community if we start with physical practice first. Do you think I’m right there or can you see what I’m talking about?

Jason Wachob: [00:44:53] Look, I think for us and our journey and our mission, so much comes back to the why. What is our intention for our life as we age? What brings us joy? What’s the life we want to live? And what first came to mind to us was our children and the idea of having grandchildren. And what’s the vision we have? I’m 48, we have a six-year-old and a four-year-old, being able to run with that child, being able to play soccer with that child. Maybe being blessed being around and our children having children and being able to do the same thing. Being able to pick up a 30 pounder. So much of this comes back to cognitive decline, this is not a variable we’re facing. You want to be mobile. Our vision of our future, we want to be mobile, we want to be strong. That brings us joy, to be able to go to Disney World and be able to walk all day.

Juliet: [00:45:50] Twenty five thousand steps at Disney World. 

Colleen Wachob: [00:45:52] Totally.

Jason Wachob: [00:45:53] I think it’s one of the things, mobility and being able to walk and feeling good in your body is so foundational. And when that’s not the case for someone who’s gone through that, life isn’t fun. 

Colleen Wachob: [00:46:03] Yeah, and I think the motivations change throughout the seasons of life and we’ve seen them change at a macro level here at mindbodygreen in that 10 years ago it was nutrition, nutrition, nutrition. And I remember even meeting with advertising partners who would be like, Colleen, why are you talking about depression so much? That’s just not much fun. And obviously, not wonderful.

Kelly: [00:46:26] Where’s the fun, Colleen?

Colleen Wachob: [00:46:27] Exactly.

Jason Wachob: [00:46:28] I was like you know it’s an algorithm. Those are the articles you can be sure that you’re clicking on those pieces.

Colleen Wachob: [00:46:34] And now with the mental health epidemic, one pro of it is we are able to talk about these things more candidly and more open. But my own personal motivations kind of change throughout the seasons of life, throughout the decades of life. And it’s just how do we start getting people to care earlier before the body breaks, before there’s a movement issue because it’s just a way to feel your best.

Juliet: [00:46:56] Yeah, and I mean I do think the key is the kids. I mean I’m not saying it’s too late for all of us that are not kids.

Kelly: [00:47:05] It’s too late for you. Go on.

Juliet: [00:47:06] People ask us often, okay, I just got your book Built to Move, I’m 60, is it too late to start? And we’re like no, it’s never too late to start. That’s a key thing. But I do think and we follow I think the same parenting strategy that you guys do, which is modeling. That’s the only strategy we know. We just try to implement as many healthy habits as we can and make sure we create community and have friends around and travel and have a full life of joy. And that’s what we try to model for our kids. But yeah, I mean I think it is difficult. And I have to read this quote, I put it up on my Instagram yesterday, that I love from your book. It’s “Health and happiness are so deeply connected that in the long term, you can’t have one without the other.” And I think that’s kind of what Kelly was getting at. It’s like on some deep and important level, you can’t talk about depression or mental illness without some of these physical practices and making sure those things are aligned and making sure people are sleeping and eating a vegetable and walking and creating community. I think in kids’ cases it’s impossible to talk about this without saying the impact of social media, which you guys haven’t experienced yet. But we feel like we’re the parenting generation, we feel like we’re guinea pigs. And not even feel like. We’re guinea pigs. We all felt pressure to give our kids phones by middle school and they’re on them and they’re on TikTok. It’s like we feel like we’re guinea pigs and the data is clear that it’s a problem.

Jason Wachob: [00:48:35] Happy and healthy I think also in our world, there’s been a disconnect. Some of the healthiest, most health forward, brilliant minds and influencers in our world who we know personally are miserable. Some of them are open about it, some of them aren’t. What’s the point? This is the joy span. What’s the point of being jacked and have great lab work and VO2 max?

Kelly: [00:49:02] A1C, nailed it. 

Jason Wachob: [00:49:04] Yeah. Oh, man, my hemoglobin is just amazing. What’s the point of all this and how fast I can go and all the tests?

Kelly: [00:49:14] Maybe it’s Gattica. I can take Lisa’s hematocrit judge her maybe as a partner.

Jason Wachob: [00:49:20] What’s the point of all this? There is a point for me where I do the lab work partly because I want to be here. I do 28 vials of blood twice a year, which is twice a year and I get the hard tests and so forth. And there was a point where I was doing four times a year. My doctor, Frank Lipman, was like, “Jason, what are you doing? Stop. Just do twice a year. You’re good.” And it’s this idea of maybe I get the perfect lab and then I get hit by a bus. Or you’re becoming so miserable. And I think you’ve got to get to your why. Why do you want to be fit? Why do you want to be mobile? Why do you want to be around? You want to be happy. You want to have great relationships.

Kelly: [00:40:56] We ask these questions of ourselves very often.

Colleen Wachob: [00:50:00] We have too on this journey. What is the point of all these smoothies?

Kelly: [00:50:04] I am going to quote that forever. That is the guy holding the sign. Who’s drinking all these smoothies? I think that’s so good.

Jason Wachob: [00:50:11] We’re not TCM practitioners. They have a distinct point of view.

Colleen Wachob: [00:50:17] But you get to this point, and I go back to this life I was living in my early 30s, of being able to answer what is it that brings you joy. And there are so many moments in time where I think if you asked me that in my early 30s I’d be like getting margaritas after work. And that is a wonderful socialization part, but it can’t be your only why. And how do we really get in touch with what are the amazing experiences that we want to cultivate and intentionally create on the 4,000 weeks that we have on this wonderful planet?

Jason Wachob: [00:50:46] And I’ll just share, this is a study I think everyone in health and wellness needs to know about it. It’s in the book. The Roseto Study. It’s become my favorite study. Nutrition and movement are paramount but I share this because I think it’s so important given the mental health epidemic and the loneliness epidemic. Roseto was a small town in rural Pennsylvania in the 1950s. This is when heart disease enters America except in Roseto. Men under 65, no heart disease. Men under 55, half that of the nation. What are people doing here? This is amazing. Well, they’re smoking, they’re drinking, they’re eating lots of pasta and meatballs. This makes absolutely no sense. And what they found when they took a deeper look is these people are the happiest people in the world. Their social connections were immensely powerful; multigenerational living was paramount. All of the fun stuff they were doing was in the context of celebration. It was breaking bread with neighbors, drinking with neighbors. There were parades, there were parties, there were celebrations. These people were so incredibly connected. In the 1960s, the community started to break up. People started to break away. And heart disease caught up with the national average. I’m not saying do all these things. But I think you get the point. What is our why? We need connection. We need to be happy. All the exercise, all the lab work, all the protocol in the world aren’t going to help you if you’re broken emotionally, spiritually, mentally.

Kelly: [00:52:02] We all come from somewhere. We learn our health practices, we learn our self-care, we learn how to eat, we learn how to cook, theoretically, from somewhere. And what we’re seeing is definitely there’s a gap there. We all just kind of blunder into the scene like whoa, kale, I eat vegetables. Sleep. I didn’t know.

Juliet: [00:52:22] Kale is no longer in. It’s out.

Kelly: [00:52:25] I want to make kale great again. that’s what we’re trying to do here. It is interesting to be as exposed as Juliet and I are to the world of performance, of data, and then smack into the reality of having a 15-year-old who only eats brown food. If she’s going to eat a fruit or vegetable today it’s because I blended it up in a protein shake smoothie thing for her and snuck her in. And I’m still counting the number of blackberries she’s eating. Three more blackberries, two more blackberries, Caroline. Here’s a kid who’s exposed to everything. Because I think this is really the rubber hits the road piece, we have this nice and then we have reality. Having these two children, I’d love to know simultaneously on the first hand, what have you reevaluated in terms of what’s practicable. And then simultaneously, not becoming what we’ve learned from our daughters is called an almond mom. The almond mom is the mom who pushes or the parent who pushes diet culture onto their kids and is counting almonds as a snack. Can you talk about those two things with your own family because I think that’s really interesting.

Colleen Wachob: [00:53:37] I mean I think we really had to focus in on what are going to be the needle movers that are going to deliver the best results. Because we also have a daughter whose palate is very brown. And we’ve had to reset our expectations and think through what’s going to have the biggest impact. Where she is right now in life, we’re like please have protein, make sure you have protein at every meal. We have another daughter who loves broccoli. It’s a different set of challenges with each daughter but it’s really just focusing in on the needle movers because as parents to two girls, we are sensitive to diet culture and orthorexia. And some people have real issues with certain food groups and some people don’t but like to restrict for other reasons. So we want to establish and model healthy behaviors. We like bringing them to the gym in our building when no one’s there just so they can have fun and see us working out and do some pushups and do a little sit-up, some jumping jacks. And really just focus our energy on the things that move the needle.

Jason Wachob: [00:54:38] And protein is a big focus for them. That’s our rule. You’ve got to have protein. Our four-year-old who want to be like her big sister, we’ve convinced her this is her vehicle for growth. You want to grow like your big sister, you need protein. So we always try to get them to consume protein. We have dessert at night. They’ll have treats. We try to push for better treats. We try to educate our daughters. Our one daughter knows that I do not like Pirate’s Booty. That is a staple. I tried to explain, this is how you read a label, I can get you a better option. We can buy lesser evil paleo puffs if you want a similar experience better for you.

Juliet: [00:55:17] Let’s be honest, it’s about the mouth feel. 

Jason Wachob: [00:55:20] We’re trying to teach them but at the same time, birthday parties happen.

Kelly: [00:55:28] The juice box happens.

Colleen Wachob: [00:55:32] Teaching our older daughter who snores to learn to breathe through her nose during the day so that she can start that. She’s starting in athletics too. And being thoughtful around mental health and anxiety. Because when I was little I definitely had anxiety but we didn’t have the vernacular to actually say I had anxiety. Just in hindsight.

Kelly: [00:55:49] How did your family deal with it?

Juliet: [00:55:52] They didn’t. It was the 80s. What are you talking about? No one dealt with

Kelly: [00:55:57] You bought fro yo?

Colleen Wachob: [00:56:00] Probably got some Pinkberry

Juliet: [00:56:02] I didn’t mean to answer your question for you.

Colleen Wachob: [00:56:02] But you did. And succinctly and spot on. So we’re thoughtful in making sure our daughter isn’t striving for perfection. It’s a word we try to strike from her vernacular. And what you said about your generation of parents being guinea pigs, I agree and have so much empathy. We have parent friends who have kids that are older who literally have to lock their kids’ devices in a safe because their kid is not able to restrain themselves. And we’re all addicted in varying degrees. But our hope as eternal optimists is by the time our children come of age, we’ll understand that this is like giving your child crack cocaine and obviously the moms aren’t going to do it and be parent pressured in. That’s our hope. Because it’s hard to be a human.

Kelly: [00:56:53] Bless your little hearts. You’re like it’s going to be fine, they won’t need phones. They’re going to go buy their own phones around the corner. It’s totally fine.

Juliet: [00:56:58] Couple stories. I implemented this rule when my kids were your kids’ age, when we’d go to the grocery store because sometimes I didn’t even want to take them to the-

Kelly: [00:57:06] This is so good.

Juliet: [00:57:08] Because they would be so annoying. Every aisle they would be like can we get this can we get this can we get this. And that was my whole conversation. And so I created this rule where I was like when you can read everything on the nutrition label, all the words correctly, then you can buy that. And the thing they really wanted early on were you know those orange crackers with peanut butter in the middle?

Kelly: [00:57:28] Tasty.

Juliet: [00:57:29] Remember those?

Kelly: [00:57:32] They’re not tasty. But they’re associated with a happy part of my life.

Juliet: [00:57:33] The ingredients are on there but they’re in one point font and it’s a lot of really sceintify sounding stuff because of course it’s not really made of food. And actually, by the time our daughter Georgia was 10, she actually was able to fully pronounce it. And I was like, all right, today’s your day. And of course, she got them and they weren’t that exciting or whatever. But I think the point to be made, especially with kids and food is it’s at some point got to be good enough. I think I started off gritting my teeth because my daughter Caroline’s best friend down the street, they had Wonder Bread and Velveeta in their house and Caroline loved going over there. Caroline loved going over there. And I was kind of gritting my teeth. And I realized what I can control is what we eat in our household and how we talk about our relationship and our food. And I’m trying to teach my kids to just not be robots. I want them to go and make their own choices and make bad choices and learn what makes their bodies feel good. And so it really is it’s got to be good enough philosophy.

Colleen Wachob: [00:58:37] I like that.

Jason Wachob: [00:58:37] Yeah. I like that a lot.

Juliet: [00:58:39] Because they’re going to go to the birthday party where they just eat a Safeway cake and seven juice boxes and that’s got to be okay. You don’t want to be the weird parent that sends your kid to the birthday party with a Tupperware of who knows what. That has a lot of social consequences.

Kelly: [00:58:58] Here’s my sashimi chicken breast and my brown rice. Put it with the other juice boxes. Do you remember that Caroline would go to the parties and she would only eat a little bit of the frosting because she discovered that the cake made her feel sick? And she was just like-

Juliet: [00:59:11] I don’t like cake. So one thing I want to go back with you guys to talk a little more about, it’s a subject near and dear to our hearts, which is this accessibility conversation. And I think I mentioned earlier, I do think it’s a positive in our space that we are leaning into science and there’s some celebrity physicians that are talking about health and longevity and strength and conditioning. I do think those are important voices in this space.

Kelly: [00:59:37] Vital.

Juliet: [00:59:37] And I do think the lean in to science is important and vital. And at the same time, what we’re seeing from that is I think even going farther afield in terms of accessibility from even some of the internet influencer kind of kooky things we’ve all seen out there. And I know it’s such a value for us and a challenge because the things that are accessible aren’t sexy on social media.

Kelly: [01:00:00] Yeah. We actually only advocate things that scale. We look back and say this technology is awesome, I’m going to need 50 of them for my 14 gym class, doesn’t work. Suddenly we’re like this is super cool but it doesn’t scale and we can’t reproduce it without lots of machines or lots of technology.

Juliet: [01:00:17] So there wasn’t really a question there but what are your thoughts on the whole accessibility issue? And I know we’ve talked about it already a bit.

Jason Wachob: [01:00:23] Hundred percent it’s huge. Look, this is the big why behind the book. National Quitter’s Day at the gym is January 13. We last 13 days. Why is that? Because we set ourselves up for failure with expectations that are unrealistic given our lifestyle. And so part of it is we believe what you do, there’s so much great science, there’s so many modalities or practices. Find the ones that bring you joy. Because if it’s not going to bring you joy, you’re not going to do it. I hate running. If you see me running, call the police. Not going to happen.

Juliet: [01:00:52] You’re running away from something, that’s what we know. Yeah. 

Kelly: [01:00:55] Gators.

Jason Wachob: [01:00:56] Exactly.

Colleen Wachob: [01:00:57] And when we looked at the criteria for the eight pillars of the book, is there science, is this accessible? And that’s one of the reasons we didn’t include sauna, but we did include cold. There is a lot of great science around sauna. I don’t know that many people that have a sauna unless they’re living in-

Jason Wachob: [01:01:15] They’re expensive.

Colleen Wachob: [01:01:17] They’re expensive.

Kelly: [01:01:19] Florida? You already have a sauna.

Juliet: [01:01:21] Yeah. They’re expensive and require a gym membership for most people.

Colleen Wachob: [01:01:25] Totally. So how do we focus all of our energy and power on these fundamentals that meet that criteria that’s time tested, that are going to move the needle?

Jason Wachob: [01:01:35] This is why we love you guys. Your work, mobility, walking movement. Walking is the most underrated practice of them all. Every cognitive, cardiovascular, you name it, just being mobile.

Kelly: [01:01:46] We’re trying to recategorize walking as breathing, nutrition, sleep, walking. It’s not exercise. It’s not an optional.

Juliet: [01:01:52] I just have to tell you guys, props, I was actually excited, there was actually a clip about us being on your podcast, about me taking about walking that went up. I think it was like a collab. And it is doing very well as an Instagram post. And I was really excited because it’s not really that controversial. It doesn’t meet those criteria.

Kelly: [01:02:14] Hateful walking.

Juliet: [01:02:15] There still were a few people who chimed in you’re crazy. But I mean by and large, it’s not controversial, it’s not about anger. And I was so delighted to see that that caught on because I was like, yes, we can keep saying these simple things over and over again and I think certain things are catching on and I was delighted to see that walking thing got some traction out there in the world. 

Colleen Wachob: [01:02:41] Same.

Jason Wachob: [01:02:42] Same.

Colleen Wachob: [01:02:42] I mean yesterday we posted about walking about water and that got a lot… Not as much engagement as your clip. But I do think people are looking for these underrated things that they can actually incorporate into their life. So the more we can shine a light on them…

Kelly: [01:02:57] Then they feel better. I mean that’s really the magic. Suddenly you see your neighbors, as we come back around to the brain, you’re outside, you get sunlight. One of our friends that works at Outside Magazine, there’s a new app that actually can calculate how much time you’re actually spending outdoors.

Colleen Wachob: [01:03:12] I like that.

Jason Wachob: [01:03:13] I like that. 

Kelly: [01:03:14] I know. It’s pretty amazing. Their whole mission is-

Juliet: [01:03:15] We’ll link to it in the show notes.

Kelly: [01:03:17] And people have forgotten that you need to be outside for vision health, for sunlight, for circadian, for all the other things. But what we’re finding, the research, is that kids were spending 40 minutes a day outside, total in aggregate for the whole day. And being in your car is not outside and being in Costco is not outside either, actually being outside. And somehow, they’ve used the GPS to figure out where you are. But we just even heard Huberman say, hey, the goal is two hours, and I was like, whoa. For the average person, how are you going to get two hours outside? Are you going to sleep outside?

Juliet: [01:03:49] Yeah, so I wanted to tell you one quick thing about this joy piece and I really appreciate that you guys have this, that that’s your title and it’s sprinkled throughout your entire book and that again, it’s about always coming back to what is the why. What brings you joy I think is so important. And I think the only place we really address that in our own book is where we also have evolved in our philosophy on exercise. You guys know we started off as athletes and then we were CrossFit people. And we still are CrossFit people. But we really evolved in our philosophy about exercise in particular where we were like we do not care what you do because what we’ve seen over the years is if you don’t enjoy something when it comes to exercise, you’re not going to do it. And then it becomes pointless. And man, there are a thousand ways to move your body that count as exercise. And our suggestion is always find the thing that brings you joy. And so I just so appreciate that that’s-

Kelly: [01:04:47] Shoutout Fitness Marshall.

Juliet: [01:04:47] Fitness Marshall.

Kelly: [01:04:50] Do you know the Fitness Marshall?

Juliet: [01:04:50] Your girls would love the Fitness Marshall-

Jason Wachob: [01:04:54] No. 

Juliet: [01:04:54] By the way. Shoutout to Fitness Marshall. They are follow along dance videos on YouTube by the most delightful-

Kelly: [01:05:00] Caleb Marshall and his staff.

Juliet: [01:05:02] His name is Caleb Marshall. And you can just put it right up on your TV and dance, dance, dance. It’s so fun.

Kelly: [01:05:07] You’re not one of our friends unless you’ve danced to the Fitness Marshall in our living room.

Juliet: [01:05:11] We use it as a warmup sometimes to our workout because we’re like, ah, I don’t want to do some functional warmup.

Kelly: [01:05:17] I’m like, oh, you think you’re elite, let’s see. Oh, you think you’re a good athlete? Go ahead, just follow Alison in the back. She does the easiest dance and I’m like, oh, Alison just kicked my ass today.

Juliet: [01:05:26] Yeah, we just try to follow Alison and we fail miserably and it’s not good but we move and it’s really fun.

Kelly: [01:05:31] I know we’re covering a lot. Would you describe what you describe as health pile up? I really like that phrase.

Jason Wachob: [01:05:37] I think this happens to a lot of people. Some will refer to it as I have a case of the 40s or a case of the 30s or insert decade where things start to break down. I think a lot of people have a practice. Maybe they run, maybe they go to the gym, maybe they do yoga, they do something, they’re active, and then life happens. Baby, demands of work, maybe they have a child, maybe they get an injury and then they start to let it go and that’s where we see the 10 pounds, the 20 pounds. It’s like someone doesn’t just spiral out of control but they get to a place where they feel completely disconnected from their old self. They don’t feel good, they’re not mobile, they know they’re not eating well. They know this and it’s frustrating. I think it happens to so many people where life happens. They don’t intentionally say screw the kale, I’m going all in on Oreos. I don’t think that happens. They think, oh, it’s a work dinner, or oh, it’s a work trip, or oh, kiddo’s having this, I’m going to enjoy it. Then next thing you know, it’s a couple pounds and a couple more and maybe an injury happens.

Colleen Wachob: [01:06:32] And we talked earlier about this idea of motivation and how do we spark it before you get to this detrimental point. And kind of the opposite of the pileup is the wellbeing way of hey, once you start doing something, whether it’s getting seven, eight hours of sleep, maybe it’s breathing through your nose, maybe it’s going on a walk, maybe it’s getting some hours outside, but not two hours—getting what you can get—you start feeling better and momentum begets momentum and you’re more inspired to do more stuff. And so that’s an equally important part of the conversation is how we get motivated, is once you start to feel good, you want to do more of it.

Kelly: [01:07:07] I just want to shoutout to our producer, Lisa, who’s going to be mortified right now. But we met Lisa, she and her husband are amazing, they’re incredible people, Lisa is one of the best movers in our neighborhood. But now, after working with us for a long time, wait for it, she sends me Instagram videos of people doing rear foot elevated split squats. She sends me fitness memes. And specifically, the worst fitness memes about the hardest exercises. And I’m like, Lisa, we’re riding the wave. I have a term for this, that Lisa has gotten so into this this way of shredding and being super jacked all the time that she’s like sorry, I’ve got-

Juliet: [01:07:46] She just died. She just left.

Kelly: [01:07:47] I know. It’s all on purpose. But anyway, my point is I recognize that phenomenon through the memes that Lisa sends me about Bulgarian split squats.

Juliet: [01:07:55] Yeah, but I think the health pileup, I love that phrase because I think so many people find themselves in that space at so many points in their lives and even people like us who are deep into the health and fitness space, have athletic backgrounds, you name it, I think it’s not reserved for-

Kelly: [01:08:12] No, it’s almost more dangerous because you’ve gotten away with a lot from genetics or history or you’ve been coasting, and then all of a sudden, you take your eye off of it for a second because you’re like, I’ve always been good, I’m good, I’m an athlete.

Juliet: [01:08:24] Amazing. So what are you guys looking forward to and what’s next because other than I will say getting a book out into the world is no small task. So congratulations again. Hopefully part of what’s next is taking a deep breath and enjoying this awesome piece of work you’ve done. But what’s next, what are you guys looking forward to?

Jason Wachob: [01:08:45] Yes, we are taking a breath. We’re still excited to talk about the book and spread the gospel in the way that you are and making accessibility more accessible, making it cool. Showing that there’s real science here, showing that you can get real results with minimal time. And that is so exciting to us and I know exciting to you. And we think about our mission and passion and how it’s evolved, the science is very clear, you can find modalities or practices or protocols, whatever you choose to call it, that are low cost, no cost, don’t require a lot of time and effort, and will get you real results. And that’s what we’re so thrilled about because God, the world needs it.

Juliet: [01:09:26] Seriously. I’m high ten-ing you from the other coast.

Kelly: [01:09:29] Let everyone know where they might find more information about you and your work and how to follow you on the socials, all that.

Juliet: [01:09:36] And also, your book is on Amazon and all the places people can find books, so I’m just going to throw that out there. 

Jason Wachob: [01:09:42] Absolutely. The book is on Amazon and all the places people sell books. So they could go to thejoyofwellbeing.com and then you can find us personally @jasonwachob and @colleenwachob on Instagram. And then all things mindbodygreen: mindbodygreen.com, our podcast, all your listeners should listen to you on our podcast. You were fantastic. We’ve gotten a lot of great comments. So we’re everywhere.

Juliet: [01:10:05] Well, thank you guy so much. It’s really so fun to get to spend an hour and fifteen minutes with you.

Colleen Wachob: [01:10:11] With our kindred spirits on the other coast.

Jason Wachob: [01:10:13] Yes, we’re so excited to connect in real life.

Kelly: [01:10:15] Like that matters. Come on. I’ll just slide into your DMs and-

Juliet: [01:10:20] Like that matters.

Kelly: [01:10:21] I’ll send you fitness memes and supplements in the mail. We’ll hug it out in the future. Thank you all so much.

Jason Wachob: [01:10:27] Thank you.

Colleen Wachob: [01:10:29] Take care.


Kelly: [01:10:35] Thank you for listening to The Ready State Podcast. If you like what you’re hearing, check out all our episodes here or at thereadystate.com. And be sure to subscribe or leave a review on iTunes to help others find our show. 

Juliet: [01:10:46] Check us out and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter @thereadystate.

Kelly: [01:10:51] Until next time, cheers everyone. 



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