Forums General Stiff lower back, hypermobile mid-back, uneven shoulders, femoral anterior glide (FAGS)

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    • #71681
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant
      I hope you can understand my english.
      I’m doing powerlifting/strength training for 5 years and a lot of mobility work for 2-3 years now.
      The last few weeks I was training with very high volume so this could be also a reason for the issues I have.
      I strained my hamstring tendon on the left leg, really high on the inside of the leg where it connects into the Tuber ischiadicum.
      This was 9 weeks ago, where it all started.
      I had very tight hamstrings for 2 years or longer (maybe connected to my back issues) so I began stretching them every day 4 months ago with different stretching techniques (weighted, PNF, flossing with bands, smashing with Lacrosse Ball, straight leg Goodmornings, straight leg Deadlifts), then when I did a weighted pancake stretch I injured my hammie, I could hear a snapping/cracking sound.
      Because I was injured and didn’t want to stop making progress I started stretching the Hip Flexors a lot (10 minutes a day/side), also with bands pulling my femur forward.
      1 or 2 weeks later I went to the doctor again because I felt like I have hip impingement.
      I stopped stretching the Hip Flexors.
      I made an MRI and it turned out I have coxa valga, slight mixed type impingment and a very small anterior labrum tear. So they sent me to PT, but the only thing they do is massaging and stretching my hamstring.
      After I discovered I have Hip Impingement I focused even more on improving my hip mobility.
      I’m smashing my hips and do banded distractions daily for 3 weeks now. The impingement is almost gone now. But I’m still not able to do 3rd world squats without a lot of spinal flexion. I have about 120 degrees of hip flexion.
      On the left leg I have about 50 degrees of external rotation in flexion and only 10-15 degrees of internal rotation in flexion.
      On the right leg I have only 40 degrees of external rotation in flexion but about 25 degress of internal rotation in flexion.
      Maybe this is the reason why my right hip drops lower than the left in the squat (picture).
      I’m also limited in my ankle mobility, and I have very tight quads (I can’t even sit on my heels!), IT-Band, adductors, hamstrings and lower back (QL and psoas is also tight).
      I’m smashing them already daily. I have pain on the left leg in the hip region, I think when I stand (I have a standing desk and stand at lest 8 hours a day) I stand more on my right leg.
      And I also have this ugly shoulder cracking for 4 weeks and limited internal shoulder rotation in flexion (I stopped sitting almost entirely, but I squat alot and sit on the floor cross-legged (altough it hurts in the hips) when eating or playing video games like asian people, but because of my limited hip mobility I tend to round my upper back, which I think hurt my t-spine mobility and shoulder mobility.

      I’ll send you pictures of my posture in the attachement, as you can see I also have uneven shoulder.
      Another problem I have is this ugly swayback and when I try to flex my lower back I get this mid-back bulge but no lumbar flexion at all (pictures). I think it may be something they describe in this articles:
      Point 5 of this article: https://www.t-nation.com/training/lower-back-savers
      And this article:

      What is clear at this point is that I have Femoral Anterior Glide Syndrome (FAGS), because my hamstrings fire first in hip extension before my glutes.
      And when standing I have extension-based back pain.
      I’m stretching every day 2 times for 90 minutes right now, but I want to get back to training soon, so I need to know where I should start and have a routine to attack it.
      I think I also need specific strengthening exercises in my routine, maybe for the rotator cuff, rhomboids, glutes and abs?
      But I want to deadlift, squat and bench press again.
      Thank you, I really appreciate your help.
    • #76574
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      Anyone?

    • #76577
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      Definitely have alot going on.
      Focus on a max of 3 mobs on a day. Spend quality time on a max of 3 things.
      You may not be able to do “3rd world squats due to coxa valga. The position within the join may not be possible.  Have you ever been able to perform them?

      “Very high volume” is an impacting factor.
      Look to changes within your routine.
      Are your hips in line?  May need an adjustment.
      Are you seeing improvement with the work you are doing?

      You reached your tissue tolerance for tight hamstrings.
      Were you seeing improvements prior to your injury?
      Episode 58: Weird Hamstring Problems and Simple Neurodynmaics
      Pro Episode # 36 – Voodoo Floss Series # 3: The High Hamstring
      High Hamstring Gnar, Trigger Points, and Up Stream/Down Stream
      Episode 104: Hammer Your High Hammy

      Are you addressing your back at all?
      If something isn’t right with your back the primary engines of the hip and shoulder have compensation.
      Episode 249: Improving Hip Extension (And Internal Rotation) for Running
      Episode 230: Squatting With Turned Out Feet? Hey Duck Squatter, IR Yourself.

      You may need an adjustment to re align your shoulders.
      Do you know a chiro in your area?
      Shorter sessions with higher frequency throughout the day will help.
      Short doses multiple times throughout the day. No days off with mobility.

      Did a doctor diagnosis Anterior Glide Syndrome (FAGS)?
      Were you given a plan for this?

    • #76578
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      No, I never was able to sit into a 3rd world squat without Oly-Shoes, spinal flexion or a wide stance, but I didn’t care about my mobility before I discovered MWod.
      But shouldn’t every healthy human be able to sit into a deep squat with enough ankle, knee and hip mobility?

      I already changed my routine, I focus on compound-exercises and stopped isolating muscles like upper traps and front delts.

      I was in PT today and she said my spine is aligned, it’s my shoulder musculature who’s pulling on the shoulders. Also my shoulders don’t rotate well in the socket, but I don’t want to stretch the musculature around the joint even more, I’m already very mobile there. I can easily bring my palms together behind my back and have about 110 degrees of external rotation overhead. Maybe this already is hypermobility? Nevertheless my lats feel tight, can I stretch them? What is lacking is internal rotation, my shoulder comes forward at about 30 degrees. And yesterday I almost dislocated my left shoulder reaching overhead, it cracked really loud!
      Neck stretching is really making it better, my shoulder is about 2 inches lower when I stretched my neck musculature and my head postion does dramatically improve.

      My hamstrings are a mess, therapist only needs to touch it and it hurts. But stretching doesn’t help at all, when I stretch them the next day they are tight again or even worse. And when I sit after about 10 minutes it gets really painfull.

      I’m just going after my T-Spine, I don’t know how to go after my lower back. I need more flexion at my lumbar (so tight) but more extension at my mid-back? How should I go after that?

      Internal rotation in flexion isn’t imrpoving to any remarkeble point, it just feels like bone on bone at about 10 degrees on the left side!

      Also I’m not sure if doing the Samson stretch with the band pulling the femur forward, if the femur already is in the front of the socket?

      It was never diagnosed, he just diagnosed that my hamstring and lower back is activation before my glutes.
      It don’t have a plan for nothing.

      Thank you!

    • #76593
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      Mobility and stretching are different.
      Where your shoulder is in the socket may need addressing.
      If it is forward in the socket you’ll hit bone on bone earlier than you should.

      Are you working up/down stream of where you see the issue?
      Tight lats need addressing
      Episode 297: Liquid Kayak Camp and Lat Hell
      Episode 80: Best Shoulder Mob Ever

      How often are you addressing your hamstrings?
      Multiple doses throughout the day may be needed in the beginning.
      Have you watched any of the hamstring episodes?

      If you are working on something and not seeing improvement you need to re look at how you are addressing it.
      Pro Episode # 21 – Pro-User Request Friday: Not Seeing The Change? You Need a Systems Approach.

      You don’t want your femur in the front of the socket.

    • #76594
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      Mobilizing my shoulder to the back of the socket really helps!

      Yes I’m working T-Spine and Neck both of it also helps.

      I’m adressing my hams only 2-3 times a week, because I have so much to mobilize.

      I watched all of them, thank you.

      I would like to make a mobility program for upper and lower body, but i feel like I have way to much to carry about.

    • #76595
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      Great to hear mobilizing to the back of the socket is helping.
      Another shoulder limiter is the long head of the tricep.
      Saturday, November 5th, 2016 – Triceps

      Instead of doing a little work on multiple areas a day pick one area to concentrate on.
      A complete longer doses may get to turning the corners to see change quicker.
      Quality work over quantity of work complete.

      Address the biggest limiters first.
      Spine–big engines of hip and shoulder–…..
      Core to extremities

      You may have alot which needs attention, however, starting to chip away at it is key.
      Achievable goals each day.
      Keep working with it.

    • #76608
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      Thanks for the link, really painful on the triceps.

      And what is with the spine?
      What can I do if I have some hypermobile and some stiff segments in the spine like kelly talks about in this Episode (you can see it in the pictures of my back):
      https://www.mobilitywod.com/2014/07/quick-diagnostics-and-first-fixes-round-back-deadlift-set-up-pro-episode-73/
      Should I just fix my hip Flexion and it will get better or do I Need to work on the spine directly?

    • #76609
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      Also, if your femur is in the front of your hip socket you don’t wanna mobilize it to the front of the socket like in the samson strech with a band pulling forward, right?

    • #76611
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      I saw this mwod from roop about butt winking and really like the program.

      He mentioned that he also has one for the hamstrings but I can’t find anything.
      Can you say me where I can find it?

      Thank you!

    • #76613
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      The spine is the chassis (base frame) for the hip and shoulder.
      Have you had anyone take a look at your set up?
      If things are done out of order that could be what needs attention.
      I don’t know what your deadlift compromise is.
      Wrong link is above. It links to pilot episode.
      Are you missing hip flexion?
      Get your hip to the back of the socket.

      Hypermobility
      Programming for the Hypermobile Athlete | Pro Episode #70
      The Hypermobile Amongst Us: Spine Edition
      Mobility, Pregnancy, and the Hypermobile

    • #76614
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      Actually 3 PT’s took a look at my spine and said it’s all good.
      Sometimes it looks like I have a flat back, but the other days it looks like I have a pretty massive APT.
      Really confusing sometimes.

      I miss hip flexion, somedays I can only get 100 degrees without impingement. On other days up to 120. And I miss a lot of internal rotation, especially on the left leg. That and my restricted ankles makes it impossible to squat ass to grass without a buttwink!
      For example, if I do a pigeon pose for 3 minutes I get really uncomfortable in the back leg which is in hip extension, and the next that I feel like sore in the front of the hip and have less hip flexion.
      I hadn’t seen the last video from above, but what the pregnant lady in red said was exectly the same problem I that I have. When I squat I feel really unstable and like my pubic bones are moving.
      My flexibility wasn’t that bad a while ago, but I had not thought that I could ever be too mobile? LOL
    • #76615
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      If I think about it, it seems like almost all my mobility-restrictions are caused by impingement.

      Hip flexion, hip internal rotation in flexion, adduction.
      However not my hamstrings.
    • #76616
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      You need to set correct positioning to start every time.
      Yes, this can be alot of conscious thought and work at first, however, the changed positioning will become your default positioning as you continue working with it.

      Hip flexion
      Episode 144: Ze Hip Flexion
      Episode 234: Improve Your Proximal Hip Mobility and Nerve Tunnels
      Episode 87: Hip Impingement 2: Band Variation

      Internal Rotation
      Episode 230: Squatting With Turned Out Feet? Hey Duck Squatter, IR Yourself.
      Episode 218: Mum, Dad, Don’t Stretch That, It’s Evil…
      Episode 239: Hip Extension, Like Pure Melted Gold
      Episode 249: Improving Hip Extension (And Internal Rotation) for Running

      Yes, ankle restrictions impact. at stage 1. The foundation of the system has restrictions which cause compensations up stream. (person may or may not be aware of what is happening.)

    • #76619
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      Thanks for the links.

      I found that smashing my high adductor/groin area clears alot of impingement.

      Another problem is when doing things like deep squats I get sore in the medial hamstring/adductor Connections, almost like little hamstrings strains, last week I got it just from doing crab walks with my bodyweight! What is causing it and what can I do about it?

      Today I did a strength test with my PT, he testet leg extension and flexion, hamstring to quad ratio is in the optimal range.
      strength-endurance is about the same on both legs, but max-strength is a lot stronger on the non-injured leg, aswell in leg extension and in leg flexion strength.
      How should I program my training to target this issue?

      Thanks a lot, really appreciate it!

    • #76621
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      Great to hear you are seeing results with smashing the high adductor/groin.
      Have you smashed or had someone smash your hamstrings?

      Are you addressing the medial hamstring/ adductor connections?
      Skin could be tacked down in these areas. Re-establishing sliding surfaces within these areas will change your experience. You can use a voodoo floss band or I.A.S.T.M. w/HawkGrips to re establish the sliding surfaces.

      Following an injury in impacted side may not perform at top levels right away.
      Was there a difference in the max strength, leg extension, or leg flexion strength prior to the injury?
      Re establishing sliding surfaces allows the skin to move independently from the muscles and tissues.

    • #76622
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      Yes I Smash them every day. The medial ham/ adductor connection is so painfull I can only take the yoga tune up ball.

      I don’t know if there was a difference before the injury, I don’t think it was.

      Smashing the adductors really helps, but stretching them makes things worse.
      After I stretch them my hips feel a lot more unstable and are cracking, and impingement is getting worse.
      What could it be? I should be able to do the side splits for MMA purposes.

    • #76623
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      Using a Yoga Tune Up ball is fine.
      The high grip rubber helps to separate the layers of fascia.
      This is a high tension area for you.
      Desensitize the area to start.
      Make sure you continue to breathe as you work on the area.
      When you get to a junky spot contract as hard as you can for 5 seconds.
      Release that breath completely.
      Take a breath into your stomach release that breath.
      Take a second breath into your stomach and release that.
      Getting your mind involved helps.
      As seen in Daily episodes when you get to a tough area tell you nervous system its ok.
      “This where I belong. This is my home.”
      Let your body know it is ok.

      If you aren’t able to breathe you are going too deep.
      You need to breathe in a position to own that position.

      Have you voodoo banded this area?
      Add some movement.
      Have you done monkey bars of death?
      If stretching is sketchy don’t stretch it.
      Episode 156: Split It Up! Champion Gymnast Style
      Saturday, June 1st, 2013
      Monday, June 3rd, 2013
      Friday, July 19th, 2013
      August 13th, 2013
      Friday, March 7th, 2014

    • #76624
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      Thanks for the links.

      Yes, I put on a voodoo band when I warm-up or when I do stretches.
      I think the problem is that I have too weak adductors, because I stretched them all the time. This could be the reason the pubic bones move so easily on each other.
      What can I do to strengthen them except sumo-pulling/squatting?
    • #76625
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      From what you have said prior stretching has a negative impact so I wouldn’t continue stretching.
      Pro Episode # 36 – Voodoo Floss Series # 3: The High Hamstring
      Tuesday, October 25th, 2016

      I did these with an athlete with a similar restriction this weekend and it worked great.
      The athlete will repeat this treatment a few more times until it is cleared.

      How are you creating stability at the hip?
      Episode 250: Creating Loaded Hip Stability and Torque

    • #76627
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      Yesterday I did the buttwink routine with some banded hip stretches and it clonked a few times slightly, and after the workout I had this deep glute pain.
      Let’s assume I have hypermobile hip joint, maybe I should stop working with bands on my hips completly?
      So what can I do? Taking the muscle to endrange in a static Fashion should also be avoided right?

      Yesterday I trained legs again after a almost 2 months period of stretching and resting and I couldn’t even low-bar sumo squat 135 Pounds. This adductor/hamstring interfere is so weak, maybe that’s why it’s so tight?
      After that I did rear-leg elevated deep lunge isometrics. In the back leg it felt like my femur is pushing against the front of my hip pocket, even when flexing the glute.

      And the third point is, when I try to reach my toes cold sometimes I miss 6 inches, but then I contract my glutes hard for a few seconds and I can touch my toes without much of a problem.

      So maybe I should stop working with bands and stop stretching into endrange statically. But work on strength in end-range and do only dynamic stretching and smashing?

    • #76634
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      Not good to assume anything.
      The coxa valga is a deformity of the hip where the angle formed between the head and neck of the femur and its shaft is increased from the normal 130 degrees. This structural deviation reduces stability of the hip in the neutral weight bearing position.

      You may need to use a wider stance when squatting due to the structural deviation in the angle between the head and neck of the femur.

      Taking 2 months off of something is going to impact where you are at and the weight you move.
      When was the last time you did sumo squats? Sounds like 2+ months ago or more.
      Rebuilding your squat mechanics is a good place to start. You are now aware of a structural deviation which may impact your foot placement when squatting. Feet remain straight w/ 5-11 degree acceptable turnout.
      I recommend working with a coach on the width of your foot stance and squat mechanics/technique.
      How is your ankle range of motion/movement progressing?
      Earlier you said you have very tight quads, and IT Band how are these progressing?
      How are the QL and psoas progressing?
      Impacting factors when squatting which can impact..

      How do you know the adductor/hamstring interfere is weak?
      One to check out
      Wednesday, July 22nd, 2015
      Works some down stream as well.
      If you are addressing this and not seeing change then there are a few things to consider.
      Are you spending enough time/long enough doses when working on it?
      You maybe trying to do too much during a session. Keep it simple spend quality time.
      Re assess how you are addressing it.

      Positioning when completing any task is key.
      When you contracted your glutes “hard for a few seconds” you reset pelvis position.

       

    • #76639
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      I don’t think the problem is the coxa valga, I could do squats just nicely a few months ago.

      Yes, I’m naturally a wider-stance squatter, but I can’t do wide-stance squat anymore. Even with bodyweight everything feels unstable. But going from a 400lbs squat to a 100lbs squat in 2 months isn’t normal??

      I’m seeing improvement with the ankles, as well as the QL/Psoas but I’m not hitting the root of the issue.

      The only thing I’m worried right now is my hip. Today I woke up and had this pain/pulling sensation again, it is located between the pubic bones directly over my “business”. It aggrevates when I actively flex my hips with straight legs or when I extend my upper body backwards when standing. Furthermore I have this pain in the right glute, it isn’t muscular but deep in the hip. And my pubic bones/pelvis is cracking all the time, when moving weight from one leg to the other when standing or whenever I try to squat deep is makes this clicking sounds.

      Because I could basicly do the splits both ways 4 months ago and had pretty good flexibility and now it feels so stiff. And muscle tense up to protect something that’s unstable right? And if I just were tight it would feel unstable in my hips and clicking all the time?

      I’m doing 3- and 5-step horse stance isometrics concentrating on shoving the knees out and it already helped rebuild my squat/adductor/hamstring strength a little bit.

      What do you think?

    • #76640
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      Maybe it is pubic symphysis? It also feels tender when touching directly over my “Business”.

      The first time I experienced any pain was when trying to do unsupported splits on a slippery ground. It “cloncked” like hell and I lost control. I also did alot of breaststroke when Swimming and a lot of olympic wall stretching with bands, which could’ve aggrevated it?

    • #76641
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      It could also be pubic instability: http://sportsmedicineimaging.com/topics/pubic-instabilty/
      But I need a different approach to what I am doing right now, because the stretching and smashing isn’t gonna clear the instability I experience now for 3-4 months.

    • #76642
      AvatarPatrick Thomas
      Participant

      Have you seen a practitioner about the hip issue?
      Have you worked on stability?
      It’s not a stretching issue.

      When something is going on yes performance can  impacted alot.
      Good to hear you are seeing improvement with ankle rom, QL and psoas.

      There can be multiple contributing factors.
      The cumulative impact of each factor causes a bigger deviation than any one item individually.
      Consistent daily work as you are doing. This isn’t a new issue so you may not see change right away.
       
      Have you smashed your gut?
      Jill Miller Smashes Your Guts! (and psoas, and tacked down viscera, and matted down abdominals…) Part 2

    • #76643
      AvatarShelley Montemurro

      Samuel!

      Everyone’s talking about hips, hamstrings, joint capsules, smashing ITB’s, etc. How about addressing the organ that put you into this mess in the first place? The thing between you two ears. Without sounding too crass, check these guys out http://www.posturepro.ca AND also how about getting into some Primal Movements-https://gmb.io/programs/
      Let me now how it works for you!

      Adam Ridgewell DO, RMT, Posturologist, Golf Bio.
    • #76645
      AvatarChingChin Wang
      Participant

      I’m working on stability and it helps me a lot.
      I started working on some gymnastic moves which help with body control.
      Gut smashing also feels good, I just need to be patient with the progress.

      @Adam:
      I bought GMB’s Elements and do them every morning after waking up. It’s exciting to explore these primal movements!
      I don’t understand the first link, looks just like commercials for their product to me.

      Thanks to both of you!

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