Daily Mobility Exercises by Dr. Kelly Starrett › Forums › General › Post-Global Gut Smash Soreness/Pain/Ache

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    • 04/19/2014 at 2:56 am #70907
      AvatarAlex Daubon
      Participant

      Did the global gut smash for the first time. Used a SPRI ball for 10 minutes in the area. It’s been two hours and ever since i feel a soreness and deep achy pain in my gut that has not subsided. Feels like DOMS from an ab workout or a cramp or something of the like.

      Is this normal?

    • 04/19/2014 at 11:22 am #74521
      AvatarNathan Richer
      Participant

      You may have overdone it.  I know the folks at MWOD say 2min minimum, and sometimes even as much as 10 min depending on the situation. But in my experience, going even 2min can be too long.  The problem I think is knowing how much pressure to really use, and when to stop.  The word “smash” that we use unfortunately brings the connotation that we should be literally crushing our muscles which i think is wrong. Causing trauma to our muscles, and especially when they have already been beat up by a workout(s) is not a good idea.

      In some of Kstarr’s videos, he always states that the pain should grow less at the end of the session, not more. 
      Also I think pressure should be increased gradually as you detect change in the tissue. You should add pressure gradually as the tissue adapts and relaxes. Some of the reason for non-change is because your body doesn’t accept the pressure.  Thus, your muscles stay tense in reaction to the pressure and resulting soreness/pain from it, and that is not what you want.  So you may need to apply lighter pressure until your body and brain accept the pressure, and finally lets the tissue relax into it.  Applying more pressure when the muscle has not relaxed will increase the chance that you cause trauma to the muscle.  That is why we accelerate change by tighten-then-relax.  Smashing into tight muscle without some neurological change agent will ultimately bruise it.
      I have found that sometimes, no matter what i do, i cannot relax into the pressure. So i just stop and go at it either later in the day or the next day.  
      It also can take time to get used to “smashing”.  Over time you develop the ability to “accept” smashing and the positive results it brings. When you start out, or if you have spent a long time away from it, it can take a while to adapt.  So it may mean only 30 seconds for the first few sessions, then build up to many minutes.
      Different parts of your body may have different reactions to smashing and the type of tool used for smashing. For example, my right high hamstring gets very tight sometimes. But I cannot use a hard lacrosse ball or supernova on it; it reacts badly and it gets more sore after. HOWEVER if i use a softer Alpha ball, i can get the tissues to release. Completely different situation on my left hamstring where i can use hard lacrosse balls or supernova on it no problem.
      I would let the tissues recover before smashing again, then either go at it for less time, less pressure, or use a softer tool until you build up your tolerance – and the tissues show more positive change.
    • 04/19/2014 at 2:08 pm #74522
      AvatarAlex Daubon
      Participant

      Thank you for the reply. It clearly states in the book to expect pain and discomfort. Also that 10 minutes is the “minimum commitment,” so “pony up.” Also, I’m using the softest ball I can imagine for this gut smash. I was also doing contract/relax via inhalation and exhalations. He clearly states to get your full weight on the ball with no disclaimer…

    • 04/19/2014 at 3:59 pm #74524
      AvatarNathan Richer
      Participant

      Yes pain and discomfort in the beginning, but it should lessen as you get the tissue to change. It’s been my experience that if the pain/discomfort doesn’t lessen, something in you is not ready for more change just yet. It could be mental – Roop once told me to relax when he “superfriended” my lats with his heel – it hurt like hell but as i forced mental relaxation to accept the pressure, the pain slowly subsided. And I was not sore afterwards.  

      I know that there are some significant time limits, but I have found that change can happen in as little 20-30 seconds, or as much as over many days/weeks.  And unfortunately as you discovered, if you push past some limit in your tissues, you create trauma and are really sore afterwards.

      If you are a little sore, that’s OK. but if you’re too sore, it could limit you from working out until the soreness subsides somewhat.  It’s a hard balance to achieve and takes time to know how long you can work a part of your body with a certain method before you have to stop.
    • 04/20/2014 at 6:47 pm #74525
      AvatarAlex Daubon
      Participant

      I do not believe this is a mental problem… I will try it out again, but under a much shorter time limit, and see if I still get the post-smash soreness.

      It would be nice to hear others’ experience with the gut smash.

    • 04/21/2014 at 2:59 pm #74527
      AvatarNathan Richer
      Participant

      Work up to longer sessions. Start with 30 seconds and move up from there. If not your mind, then your body then. It takes time to adapt to smashing. Over time your tolerance will increase – but by then your muscles will probably be getting better anyways.

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