Daily Mobility Exercises by Dr. Kelly Starrett › Forums › General › MAJOR KNEE PAIN–PFS?

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    • 01/21/2015 at 10:17 am #71239
      AvatarMatt J Bowden
      Participant

      Hi. I’ve been having major kneecap pain for several months on and off. Was diagnosed by a PT as PFS. I play adult hockey and started crossfit aprrox 2 months ago. The last 2 days have been excruciating for me. Pain up and down stairs, etc. I have been doing some mobility including couch stretch and banded hip stretches, but nothing working. I finally did set up a Dr. appointment but couldn’t get in until February 9th. This is very frustrating as it is severely hampering lifestyle. Thanks for any help. 

    • 01/22/2015 at 12:19 am #75693
      AvatarNathan Richer
      Participant

      I would get some voodoo bands from rogue fitness and work up and down from the knee. check this MWOD episode out:

      you need to feed some slack into the system. it is most likely that your upper legs are very tight to the hip, and possibly down into the lower leg too. voodoo floss around the knee as in the video. but then wrap mid quad and do movements, do high quad/high ham and do movements. then do lower leg – calf/ankle – and do movements.
      good luck with this and let us know if the voodoo bands are helping!

    • 01/22/2015 at 3:11 pm #75697
      AvatarMatt J Bowden
      Participant

      Thanks David. I have flossed w my trainer at the gym, but that was over a month ago. I’m going to order the floss today and start on it. I have an MD appt next week. BTW, I don’t feel any pain in my hips. Would I if I was tight or short in the hips?

    • 01/22/2015 at 3:27 pm #75699
      AvatarNathan Richer
      Participant

      re: your hips

      the best way to tell is to use one of the MWOD tests – deep squat, pistol squat, etc. however, bear in mind that the reason why your knees hurt could be because you have tight hips (or other parts of your system) and your knees are bearing the load of force absorption, and are protesting now.
      floss at least once every day, around the knee and above and below the knee. please do report back your progress!
    • 01/29/2015 at 5:33 pm #75727
      AvatarMatt J Bowden
      Participant

      Hi David. Had a doc appt today. Based on several factors he thinks I have patellofemoral arthritis. I have an MRI scheduled for next week. Not sure what this all means, for my athletic endeavors or general fitness plans. Any insight I would appreciate it. Thanks

    • 01/29/2015 at 8:24 pm #75729
      AvatarNathan Richer
      Participant

      i would say that arthritis is not my specialty and i’m not a clinician.

      arthritis is definitely inflammation related and i believe some forms of degeneration are in part due to the poor movement patterns we have, in addition to some kind of chronic inflammation in the joints.
      So your years of playing hockey but unwittingly with movement patterns that have caused damage to your knees and without MWOD principles to loosen/lengthen your muscles up so that they are ready to absorb force again, your knees are now feeling pain. Well…that is my theory – i think that spending some time with MWOD principles and restoring mobility of structures up and down stream from the knee, and then also looking at muscular imbalances and your skating pattern (maybe walking, running, sitting as well) could bring you back.
      it is also possible that you were on the edge of injury while playing hockey, but put yourself over the edge with crossfit. you may need to back off on CF and/or hockey too to heal up. if you are still moving ok, i would definitely try anything/everything before someone cuts you open for some “solution”.
    • 01/30/2015 at 10:57 am #75730
      AvatarMatt J Bowden
      Participant

      Thanks David. I think you nailed it in the last paragraph. Don’t think hockey has been the lone contributor, but certainly would consider the possibility. I do think I put it over the edge w CF, unfortunately. The volume of squatting, burpees and box jumps just put tremendous stress on the joint. I am bummed because I really fell in love with CF and saw some great results in the short term. I even bought a book on Olympic lifting, to improve my progress in that area. I have not been to the gym in two weeks, and skipped my game this week. Lo and behold, the pain has subsided. I have MRI and follow up visit scheduled for next Wednesday. Thanks again

    • 01/30/2015 at 11:36 am #75731
      AvatarNathan Richer
      Participant

      when you are healed up some, i would encourage you to ease up to CF in combo with hockey more.  try going only once a week to CF first and then see if you can space more rest after CF before you next hockey game.  do only bodyweight, and the bar for lifts. then build from there.

      make sure you mobilize after CF and hockey to get those tissues back in order – don’t leave the tightness around! things will only build to bad.
      also note that CF is awesome GPP – general physical prepardeness. however, with many athletes who do another sport, people often do CF in the off season and then need to taper off CF during season because the stress of doing both CF and their sport together is too much. or they need to reduce volume and load considerably because they just simply cannot recover enough and it is interfering with their sport specific training.
      i don’t know if your hockey league is all year round or only in the winter, but you may consider cycling the training if there is a break. good luck with the MRI! always cool to peer inside your body for whatever the reason.
    • 03/06/2015 at 11:51 am #75836
      AvatarAshley Symons
      Participant

      I had very similar pain to what you are describing. I used a raquetball to smash the area just above my knee on my quads. It hurt like hell, but after a day or two of 2-3 minutes 2-3 times a day, the pain was almost completely gone. I started including some form of quad/hip mob (usually smashing w a raquetball or pvc roller) to feed slack into the knee. Seems to work for me. Good luck!

    • 03/11/2015 at 12:11 pm #75846
      AvatarTrevor Franck
      Participant

      Definitely go after your quads and hamstrings that may be creating abnormal pull at the patellar tendon causing the patella to grind. Also assess your hip IR/ER because it may be that the “track” (femoral condyles) may be malaligned under the “train” (patella) and causing it to slide/glide abnormally. Don’t forget the quads up at the hip either and check tibial rotation as well. IF those are all normal then travel to the feet because most times that can cause all kinds of knee issues if your ROM doesn’t fall within the norms necessary for performance in and out of the archetypes. Today’s dailyrx would be a good start btw.

    • 03/17/2015 at 7:14 am #75855
      AvatarKatie Hemphill
      Participant

      Hey Scott, 

      Can I get a video of you squatting from the front without load?
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