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Daily Mobility Exercises by Dr. Kelly Starrett › Forums › Knee › Kneecap Pressure – Patellar Tracking Issue?
Tagged: knee
Hi everyone,
If there is any pain, then go to see a clinician first to rule out anything serious.
Thanks, David. The physician advised me to cycle Ibuprofen for a month and see what happens. When I mentioned Dr. Starrett’s research and findings she almost blew a gasket in disgust and bewilderment. As much as I don’t want to jump on the ibuprofen train, there seems to be some underlying inflammation that just won’t calm down, so perhaps I’ll give it a run for a week and see what happens.
My general rule is if a doctor or some clinician prescribes a drug to you, then it’s probably ok under their supervision. Taking ibuprofen every day on your own to combat the effects of training is a bad idea.
I think you need to see someone like Kelly. An athlete who has studied the human body, and has experience treating people without the use of drugs.
Ultimately, the drug can still only put a bandaid on an issue. There’s still something that caused and most likely will continue to cause the issue after you finish your cycle of ibuprofen.
That being said, Kelly always speaks to this “model” of human movement. His view takes on the lens of viewing the body as a machine. This machine was designed to work in many ways and at various capacities. However, Kelly’s emphasis of study and education is based on finding the most optimal, for performance AND stability. His approach takes into account the dynamics of physics and gravity (much like oly lifters do) in direct relation to the moving parts, “gizmo’s”, and levers that compose the “system of systems”.
This “model” however relies on some level of healthy tissue. You can be injured in a way that going through “proper” movements may still cause pain. I’ve learned that there’s a balance in biomechanics. One part is going through a movement with good form, the other is engaging the right muscles at the right time in the right way. Sometimes you can’t always get the latter part to kick off because of a bad muscular imbalance, a small but substantial injury, or just really bad neuromuscular control.
The fix: A trained individual that knows the body very well and that can diagnose issues without needing to resort to drugs on measuring devices.
While the human body is a phenomenal piece of machinery, it isn’t always that difficult to diagnose issues within it. I think Kelly believes in this, and he’s trying to show us how.
You’re eager to learn, now you just have to find the right person in the field that can help you understand. I went to 3 different doctors and 2 physical therapists before studying this stuff extensively. There’s a lot of “useless” (for lack of a better word) professionals out there that you have to wade through to get a good product.
Thor,
I hear ya man. My case is about 90% similar to yours.
Have you tried single leg extensions with a weight for squeezing out 5 reps? I’ve been doing these all along and they’ve done a few things for me.
1 – They have helped repair the patella tendon, I feel in a similar way that eccentric decline squats help to rehab the tendon. By stretching and pulling at it to increase blood flow and break down scar tissue.
2 – They have helped get the timing, in particular of the VMO, of all 4 quads to fire in unison and keep the tibia rotating around the knee joint in proper alignment. It’s actually pretty interesting, because sometimes having an injured tendon can provide direct feedback – when I time all 4 quads right, my tendon won’t feel pain, but the moment my VMO fires late, or my upper quads aren’t really engaging because maybe I’ve dropped my posture from the glutes up, my tendon lights right up with pain to tell me something is wrong.
When you do them:
-Sit with proper posture in the upper body and tight glutes.
-Don’t point your toe, pull it back as far as possible.
-Make sure you’re still using the principles and torque through external rotation.
You should feel that you have to rotate your leg a bit and put some tension at your knee to get your quads to really pull in good balance on your patella.
-Lastly, (I’d like to know what happens to you) focus on really using all the muscles around your knee. When I do this, it really kicks my VMO in earlier than it normally would, and I can feel that side of the patella pull in unison with the outside part of the patella. Also, I almost always feel and hear the inside (VMO) part of the patella crack and kind of tear for the first few reps. Sometimes I can get this same crack and tear to happen if I just block the upper part of my foot on something heavy and flex my quad hard in a gradual manner. After a few reps of the tearing and stretching of the actual tendon, the rest are nice and smooth.
Let me know if you give the extensions a try and if you think they give you similar benefits.
I really don’t like the idea of isolation training – but for the purposes of correcting muscular imbalances, I think they can be well utilized. Once the balance is achieved, I would think the training would shift to jump boxes which still focus on a stable spine and upper body, with the power coming from the legs, and the intensities can now vary from a single weight, to an environment of higher variables. Then also start an overall strengthening program that involves various compound lifts and keep the isolation work to a minimum.
Thanks for all the great advice. I’ve started to make positive change, but a new issue has developed. While working terminal knee extension, I’m feeling pain in the kneecap at full range. Could I be possible be working this too much, or perhaps have aggravated the PCL?
My gut tells me to focus on using a lax ball to tack the hamstring muscles while sitting and going through leg extension ROM.
Also, focus on rolling side to side the back of the knee, and the area’s just above and below. Make sure you’re rolling as far as possible so that you’re almost rolling the side of the knee.
Hit up the suprapatella pouch with a roller and the front of the tibia.
Let me know if you feel any relief from about 15-20 minutes of the above.
Your hamstring and or quad could be tight and pulling on the PCL in knee extension.
You may need to address your medial chain
Pro Episode # 36 – Voodoo Floss Series # 3: The High Hamstring
High Hamstring Gnar, Trigger Points, and Up Stream/Down Stream
Athlete’s ROM: Full Posterior Chain- Are You Dysnormal?
Episode 354: Make Your Own Super Floss/High Hamstring & Hip Gnar Gnar
Episode 272: TJ Murphy Edition and Hamstring Stiffness
Episode 173: Improve Your Medial Chain Dominance
Episode 184: Olympian Disco Pain Ball +Hamstrings
Episode 104: Hammer Your High Hammy
Episode 82: Protect your scrotch or: Medial hamstring fun
Another set
Knee Pain? Got Full Knee Power/Range of Motion/Potential–Terminal Knee Extension Part 1Knee Pain? Got Full Knee Power/Range of Motion/Potential–Terminal Knee Extension Part 2
Knee Pain? Got Full Knee Power/Range of Motion/Potential–Terminal Knee Extension Part 3
A good alternative to NSAIDs it wobenzym. Take a look at it. Its an enzyme supplement with a lot of positive testimonials.
Thanks everyone for keeping the great advice coming. The past week has yielded excellent positive change, and for the first time in a while I feel like my quads are alive and working as they should be. I can now contract the VMO with both legs on command without issue, and I no longer have pressure in the knee.
My lower body mobility still has a long way to go; it seems as though once I free up an area, the muscle quickly reverts back to it’s junky state. Trying to reverse years of abuse + lack of mobility work is challenging and intimidating, I wish I knew about this years ago, but better late than never!
What do you think addressed the issues the best?
Great to hear of your improvements.
Yes, the tissue may revert to old positioning because you are changing positional habits.
As with breaking any habit it can be tough.
Keep working with it.
Hey guys,
hey man it sounds like great progress. unfortunately as you’ve discovered, it can take an annoyingly long time, especially to reverse problems that have been around for a while, especially those that become neurological and while some releases do improve the neurological, i have found that even after releasing some muscles, the neurological problems are still there and require other modalities to fix.
I am in a similiar situation except over 6 years into my injury still and I still haven’t recovered.
Have you gotten your meniscus checked out?
Kefu –
Guys,
You should make an appointment to see a doctor.
Who/what type of professional you see would depend on the situation, and the information you have about your situation. What are you dealing with? This information will help set direction to your course of action.
Have you seen a doctor yet?
Hi Kaitlin,
Have you considered seeing another doctor?
You could ask around at the gym you attend if anyone has recommendations.
Have you had anyone look at your technique on the skills where you experience this issue?
Episode 352: Dealing With Old Junky Tissue
How many times during the day are you spending time with mobility?
I know a great PT in SF if you need one – check out Hal Rosenberg at http://www.chiromedicalgroup.com/. I assumed you were close by to SF Bay if you said you could see Roop… or see Roop – i thought i saw him post his official PT certification on instagram or twitter just recently…!
Thanks for the recommendations.
Here’s a current image, WTF is going on w/ my right knee!? The visual offset is pretty concerning.
“Regarding the pelvic tilt, I believe the main thing which has helped me to start correcting this is simply enforcing the postural bracing sequence and activating my glutes. It’s a daily fight for positioning, but I can feel my body adapting to the new changes:
The sequence Kelly describes in Chapter 2 of BASL: feet straight, butt squeezed (setting the pelvic in neutral/hips external rotation), ribcage down in order to align with pelvis, belly tight, head in neutral, shoulders externally rotated, etc.