Daily Mobility Exercises by Dr. Kelly Starrett › Forums › Knee › Knee and lower leg issue

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    • 06/27/2013 at 7:59 am #70309
      AvatarVeronica Gordon
      Participant

      The last weeks I really got good results with my shoulder pain problem thanks to a very good PT.

      But now I have another problem and I think it’s a little more complex.
      After a weekend of parkouring there was a pain on the inside of my knee joint (where the femur meets the tibia; also with a very small bruise) and on the outer side of my lower leg (most pain directly on the head of the fibula). The crazy about that is that’s on both legs.
      The pain is not that bad that I can’t move anymore, but I know that something is wrong.
      I also can squat and it doesn’t get worse, so I think it’s some running/jumping or perhaps walking issue.
      I already searched for some knee videos here, but the problem is that it’s so specific.
    • 06/27/2013 at 8:42 pm #72300
      AvatarJames Elwin
      Participant

      Sounds like a case of patellar tendonitis. When my adductors and VMO on the inside of the quad get tight it can cause pain on the inside of the knee and around the ACL which is something you should be careful with. Try rolling out your adductors and your entire quad as well as this video as you might be missing some extension of the knee joint. Your ankles could also be tight which is affecting how your knee tracks and further up the chain.

      http://www.mobilitywod.com/2012/12/knee-pain-got-full-knee-powerrange-of-motionpotential-terminal-knee-extension-part-1/
      http://www.mobilitywod.com/2012/12/knee-pain-got-full-knee-powerrange-of-motionpotential-terminal-knee-extension-part-2/

    • 06/28/2013 at 2:14 am #72302
      AvatarVeronica Gordon
      Participant

      Thanks for your answer!

      I watched this videos before and I have full knee extension and don’t have problems with my patellar or ACL.
      Perhaps I described it the wrong way with the word “inside”. The pain is on the inner side of the knee, nearly about where the MCL is and where the femur meets the tibia. And there is also pain around the head of the fibula.
    • 06/29/2013 at 4:14 pm #72312
      AvatarJames Elwin
      Participant

      Hmmm…..maybe your knee experienced a little too much shear from parkour. I know whenever I do a lot of box jumps or running, especially downhill, that can wreck your quadriceps. Also, the popliteus*(sp) is a muscle on the back side of the knee that is important in extension and the upper head of the gastrocnemius can become irritated as well. Watch this video and see if any of that helps I know that when my calves get tight the shins have to pick up the slack and this causes all sorts of problems ranging from knee pain to borderline compartment syndrome(extremely painful and overrated imo).

      http://www.mobilitywod.com/2011/07/episode-279-mob-those-lower-leg-bits/

      Let me know if you need any other links I’m wondering what your knee pain is originating from! The lacrosse ball wedged between the fibula/upper gastroc and hamstring can really help loosen up all that junky tissue. Just make sure you don’t hit a nerve!

    • 07/01/2013 at 5:07 pm #72333
      AvatarVeronica Gordon
      Participant

      I tried to mobilize this areas for a few days now. I think it is not getting much better, but I am pretty sure, that the peroneus is the tightest and ropiest muscle in my both lower legs. The left side is worse then the right, with the peroneus and also with the knee pain.

    • 07/01/2013 at 9:28 pm #72334
      AvatarAnonymous
      Guest

      Were you able to do what was in the video?
      If you are not seeing improvements you are not be going after the right thing.

    • 07/01/2013 at 9:51 pm #72336
      AvatarJames Elwin
      Participant

      My peroneals have been giving me fits due to calf tightness. Where does your pain originate in regards to the peroneals? If you know the general area you can figure out what peroneal might be giving you trouble. My peroneus longus has been acting up due to tight calf muscles and the pain can be felt right below the lateral side of the knee. Other peroneus muscles can cause lateral ankle pain, behind the tibia, outer side of the foot etc.

    • 07/02/2013 at 1:14 pm #72339
      AvatarVeronica Gordon
      Participant

      I don’t see any improvements because rolling around there doesn’t loosen it up at all.

      The most pain is on the lateral side near my knee, right about where the head of the fibula is
    • 07/03/2013 at 1:44 pm #72345
      AvatarYuliyan Dudin
      Participant

      Ive been having pain as well! Ever since starting the proper loading positioning and turning my knees out my left knee is in pain and feels loose and swollen. Im not really sure whats going on there. Im interested to see responses on how to help it and what else you all recommend.

    • 07/04/2013 at 12:23 pm #72349
      AvatarZoey Dowling
      Participant

      I had a similar knee pain. It is something you definitely want to be very cautious of. Mine originated because of horrible running technique and using arch support which didn’t make it any better. I went to the doctors a few times and they kept telling me it was tendonitis, then runners knee, and then the lubricating sack in my knee was apparently swollen. The pain got so bad for me that I couldn’t put any pressure on it and that part of my knee was sensitive to touch. I tried using compression wraps and they hurt it even more. Turns out my pain was so severe because I had actually broken the inside of my knee right where you are describing (similar symptoms too) and the doctor caught it in time before it broke to the point that I would need surgery. It was classified as a severe stress fracture.The injury for me was a weird one because I could walk fine at times and then it felt as though other times when I would walk that I would almost feel my knee catch and then release but a lot of times had that loose feeling in the joint itself but it felt like I had something tight within the ligaments. I did a lot of mobility work when all of the pain started as well and nothing helped because my technique was so horrible that my injury had worsened. I had gotten an x-ray originally when the pain started as well and nothing showed up . It didn’t show up until my mom pushed enough for me to get an MRI that the doctor finally listened. Hope it is not the same injury that I had but regardless the only thing I can try to give advice on because of experiencing something similar is to back off and stop/limit anything that really puts a load on that leg. Foam rolling or other myofascial release stuff helps but I tried to keep my leg as straight as possible because when my leg bent, it pushed on that area and caused it to wiggle the broken piece more to prolong healing.

       

      Hope this helps or gives a little more caution.

    • 07/04/2013 at 3:49 pm #72351
      AvatarVeronica Gordon
      Participant

      Thank you for your long answer, Dylan!

      I don’t think that anything on my knee is broken yet, because there isn’t such a bad pain or instability like you had. But what you describe sounds like you were talking about me. A few years ago I was using arch support, too, because of an overpronation. It took some time to realise that this whole thing made my walking/running technique and my problems with it even worse.
      Since that I am trying to use minimal shoes only and my foot structure is getting better and stronger. But what I noticed the last days is that I am not really walking on my entire foot, but much more on the outside.
      So what I want to say with this story is that I think that a wrong walking and running technique causes these problems, like you said, but in an earlier stadium than in your case.
      But the big question is what can I do about that? By now most of the time I concentrate when I am walking, but that doesn’t work on every single step, especially when I am running or doing some other kind of sports.
      So what could I do to solve that problem as fast as possible?
    • 07/05/2013 at 9:44 am #72355
      AvatarAnonymous
      Guest

      What is the difference in the heel of the shoes you were wearing and the ones you switched to?
      It may be too big of a difference all at once. Minimal shoes ask alot more out of ankle rom, heel cord, and posterior chain. It can take 2 or 3 progressions in shoes to get to a minimal shoe based on what you are coming from. Progression is key.
      Another aspect to look into is your foot strength. With arch support etc. the shoe is making the correct for you vs your foot making the correction.
      If you notice that you are walking on the outside of your foot this is something that needs attention. You want to walk on your entire foot always.
      Yes incorrect walking or running patterns/technique will cause problems.
      Is there someone with experience in teaching running technique at your gym or somewhere you have access to?
      Have someone video tape you running so you can see exactly what you are doing vs what it feels like you are doing.
      There are several running technique videos on CrossFit Endurance http://www.crossfitendurance.com/run
      It would be very beneficial to attend an Endurance Seminar since running is the skill of focus. Attendees are video taped 2 time during the weekend and receive feedback. Drills are presented and done throughout the weekend. A list of scheduled seminars is found here http://www.crossfitendurance.com/blog/5

    • 07/05/2013 at 10:19 am #72360
      AvatarVeronica Gordon
      Participant

      I never had shoes with big heels or something like that so there is no big change. The only thing I had were orthotics in my shoes, but that was about 1-2 years ago. So I think that is not the problem.

      But when I looked at a few videos here I am pretty sure, that the problem is my standing/walking/running technique.And I want to fix that before things get worse.
      I don’t know anybody teaching running technique and there is no CF Endurance Seminar here in the next months, but there is a Mobility Seminar in October with Kelly.
    • 07/05/2013 at 11:15 am #72361
      AvatarZoey Dowling
      Participant

      As far as what I would do for the pain is definitely back off some on things that cause it. Or things that you notice you have pain doing. When I say back off, I don’t mean don’t do them necessarily, simply maybe lower the intensity or cut back some and limit things that have high impact on your knee. Foot strengthening and mobility work for the legs such as smashing and flossing and things to restore normal range of motion, would be probably be a good idea before trying to trying to increase your performance in running or anything. I had a huge problem with my calves being overactive from my heel strike and overpronation and compensation from other muscles not working properly. My doctor did tell me that stress fractures are apparently very easy to occur so if you begin to notice any sharp pain or the area being sensitive to touch. Back off the exercises and goto the doctors .

       

      Sorry for the long answers especially since they are kind of vague in the advice area. Hope it helped some though!

    • 07/05/2013 at 10:30 pm #72365
      AvatarAnonymous
      Guest

      Stefan–
      The Mobility Seminar is a start.
      Orthotics make the correction for your foot as well.
      Have you looked at the rebuilding your feet videos?
      These could be part of the solution.
      I would have someone video tape you running so you can see exactly what you are doing/how you are landing/ where on your foot you are landing etc.
      A longer warm up may be something that helps. A dynamic warm up and doing some drills to prime the joints/movements you will be doing when running.
      Dylan–
      Issues with the calf are usually from having an active landing. The heel isn’t lightly touching the ground so it is always active which is the problem. Make sure your heel is kissing the ground.
      Correcting the deviations with your running technique will solve the problems you are experiencing.

    • 07/06/2013 at 6:45 am #72366
      AvatarVeronica Gordon
      Participant

      Yes Kaitlin I watched a few videos and did technique work.

      I watched following videos and doing the exercises:
      I especially have the fault with only standing on the outside of my feet, when I am trying to push my knees out like Kelly showed in the last video.
      This weekend I will try to do a lot of mobility and technique work with my feet and legs and let the rest of my training suffer a bit.
    • 07/06/2013 at 10:00 pm #72369
      AvatarAnonymous
      Guest

      Resolving these can take some time and consistent attention.
      Episode 337: Long Ruck Feet Or Ultra Marathon Feet?
      Rebuilding your feet part 3
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4h8uxhXhozY
      Your training does not need to suffer to address this stuff. It is part of your training where you are working with something that will improve your performance.

    • 07/08/2013 at 4:24 pm #72382
      AvatarVeronica Gordon
      Participant

      Thank you for the third part, didn’t find it by myself 😉

    • 08/15/2013 at 7:51 am #72609
      AvatarVeronica Gordon
      Participant

      Now, over a month later I had a running analysis.

      The pain is already gone but I knew that I am walking/running not completely correct.
      So I first had to walk barefoot on the treadmill, then run barefoot and then the same with my Nanos on. My technique was not as bad as I thought. The only problem is that my hip is a bit internal rotated while walking/running.
      First the women thought that’s because I am missing ROM in the hip. After the treadmill she tested my internal/external rotation in hip and knee and it turned out that not the hip, but the knee is the problem.
      Hip ROM is very good but I’m missing internal rotation in the knee (actually there is non).
      And that is what I am compensating with my internal rotated hip.
      She recommended all types of proprioreceptive training, but nothing to work on knee internal rotation. So what can I do about that?
    • 08/15/2013 at 1:38 pm #72611
      AvatarAnonymous
      Guest

      Episode 305: Solving Problems With The Tunnel: The Foot Strike
      I would suggest the IT Band episodes
      There are some Pro Episodes
      Pro Episode #35
      Pro Episode #5 Knee stability and laxity
      Knee Pain? Got Full Knee Power/Range of Motion/Potential–Terminal Knee Extension Part 1
      Knee Pain? Got Full Knee Power/Range of Motion/Potential–Terminal Knee Extension Part 2
      Knee Pain? Got Full Knee Power/Range of Motion/Potential–Terminal Knee Extension Part 3
      Voodoo Band Your Patella Femoral Pain

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